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Deception Sin in PvP


CBRGhostRider's Avatar


CBRGhostRider
11.01.2012 , 11:48 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Rynis View Post
Imo deception is in a great place right now especially with all the rage/focus specs running loose!

30% aoe damage reduction always/Additional 25% on demand/6% from entropic field/2% from sith defiance = OMG

I think the biggest smash I've seen on me was for 3.2k.
Also let's not forget going 1v1 against the massive influx of assault vanguards/PT pyros. When I see a lone PT pyro guarding a turret in civil war, I giggle, because 10 seconds later the turret is mine. Shroud is just so brutal against PT pyros... and deception burst takes em down quick. We don't even have to be perfect, because we get tons of stuns (spike, low slash, electrocute before his resolve is full) to make him ineffective if we make mistakes.

On my PT pyro, assassins are the class I fear the most due to shroud and force slow, and anni maras next due to their slows (rupture and leg slash). Well and snipers, but that is obvious. :P
Spoiler

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.02.2012 , 11:28 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ComputerSaidNo View Post
I wouldn't go as far to say assassins are in a great place. We're in an ok place, definitely a lot better than pre-1.4 but they still don't excel at any given role. That's part of the reason why we have all these different hybrid builds, our pure builds don't quite compete with other ACs with similar roles.
Lol...you must not be very good.

Assasins EXCELL at defending a node

Assasins EXCELL at 1v1 fights

Deception Assasins probably have the best burst in the game considering the target is stunned for half of it.

Also...your theory about hybrid builds doesn't make a lick of sense.

Ferkles's Avatar


Ferkles
11.03.2012 , 12:00 PM | #23
You want to take some points into Entropic field for a 6% damage reduction. Just take the points out of your voltaic slash damage increase and put them into Entropic Field. Reasoning behind this is that Voltaic slash is a decent damage dealer, but your main damage is coming from the procs it gives you, rather than voltaic slash itself. If you'd rather not do that, put your points into armor penetration rather than damage increase, because that gives a better dps increase.

In 1v1 situations my rotation goes like this:

>Spinning kick / Spike
> Clairvoyant strike / Voltaic slash or Shadow strike / Maul if that is proc'd. Shadow strike in preference.
> Low slash
> Mind crush / Crushing darkness

If he uses his CC breaker at this point, you need to make a decision. If it's near the end of the cast keep on with it, if it's not, break the cast and go on with the rest of the rotation.

> Clairvoyant strike / Voltaic slash until 2 procs
> Force stun if he's not got a defensive cooldown up (this will fill his resolve at this point)
> Force potency / Recklessness
> Project / Shock
> Force breach / discharge.
> Spinning strike


If at any point Shadow strike / Maul procs, use it. If he's dpsing you down fast, use your force shroud and cloak out before you die, wait for his resolve to end (shouldn't be long if at all) and open up again with a spike if it's off CD, or a low slash followed by a Crushing Darkness cast.
This ought to get a kill when you use it, and of course, in many v many situations, just go nuts with your normal rotation and pray they don't focus target you. If you get someone following you about, turn around and low slash him, switch back to your original target and carry on as before.
Getting a new signature. Eventually~

Elyna_'s Avatar


Elyna_
11.03.2012 , 01:32 PM | #24
While I'll agree with some of your 1vs1 rotation I disagree with a few things. I don't see why you would open with spike its not worth the resolve, and when your vanishing on a full resolved opponent your giving them more time to knock you out of stealth to pressure you even more. Just start with VT x2, low slash then take your pick of maul/crushing darkness depending on proc. As the fight goes on if your getting out dps'd and in trouble you want to be able to vanish > mind trap them instantly if their stun breaker has been used which at this point it should have been. Seethe back health and your now back in control of the fight. Thats just how I do it though.... To each his own

Also you said when resolve is gone you reopen with spike/low slash> crushing darkness. If your at full force and they are that ahead why not maul spam some of the force into a low slash to catch up faster and use black out while regening force back during the daze???

ComputerSaidNo's Avatar


ComputerSaidNo
11.03.2012 , 05:48 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Lol...you must not be very good.

Assasins EXCELL at defending a node

Assasins EXCELL at 1v1 fights

Deception Assasins probably have the best burst in the game considering the target is stunned for half of it.

Also...your theory about hybrid builds doesn't make a lick of sense.
1) yes, we're good at defending nodes, that alone doesn't make us a great class.

2) 1v1s are meaningless in team-based objective playstyle, which is what we have with WZs.

3) Deception burst is very easy to see coming and extremely easy to counter.

4) If we need hybrid builds to accomplish what our pure builds should be doing, then our pure builds aren't performing up to par.
R E D E K

ydenneksirhc's Avatar


ydenneksirhc
11.05.2012 , 12:48 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by thefishdude View Post
Hold on a second. When I pop Force Shroud, you'll then hit me with low slash and wait?? You do realize that Force Shroud protects from all force and tech attacks right? Your low slash won't work on a Sin that's popped it.....

http://www.torhead.com/ability/3qAwuaY/force-shroud
A tech attack would be something shot from the gun of a bounty hunter or agent, and force would be a sorcerers lightning, low slash is a basic melee spell and im not too sure where it categorizes, but im pretty sure it is possible to low slash a sin/shadow popping shroud.
-Daemmon : Deception Assassin - the Shadowlands

ydenneksirhc's Avatar


ydenneksirhc
11.05.2012 , 12:52 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Lol...you must not be very good.

Assasins EXCELL at defending a node

Assasins EXCELL at 1v1 fights

Deception Assasins probably have the best burst in the game considering the target is stunned for half of it.

Also...your theory about hybrid builds doesn't make a lick of sense.
Rofl dude i got mostly war hero and i crit no higher than 4.8-5k dmg and the sins attacks and high crits are all single target. The rage juggernauts can build up a buff to 4 stacks and when using smash, can AoE all targets around for nearly 7k EACH. so 3-4 targets gives you 20-25k dmg in a matter of 2-3 seconds.

And FYI, we suck at defending nodes, because we are super squishy,
-Daemmon : Deception Assassin - the Shadowlands

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.05.2012 , 08:33 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by ComputerSaidNo View Post
1) yes, we're good at defending nodes, that alone doesn't make us a great class.

2) 1v1s are meaningless in team-based objective playstyle, which is what we have with WZs.

3) Deception burst is very easy to see coming and extremely easy to counter.

4) If we need hybrid builds to accomplish what our pure builds should be doing, then our pure builds aren't performing up to par.
I know exactly what a deception sin does (now, obviously), but curious what you mean by how to counter it. there's no counter for VS, S, DC, and it's impossible to deny your "backside" in this game for maul (180 degrees). all I can think of is when to stun (or cleanse if you're a force user), but interrupting a 2x voltaic roto doesn't mean a thing. they're instants. the buff is back in 1 gcd. anyway, that's my thinking. i'm curious about the counter...

edit: i've noticed the first thing everybody does no matter what I open with is stun (usually a dirty kick if sniper). what's with that? is that a smart move on their part? I generally try to pop dcds rather than fill resolve when stealthies hit my other toons. anyway...in those cases, is it still adviseable to open with voltaic? or would you rather get your voltaics in after a spike, eat/break the stun and then hit your proc'd abils?
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH

ComputerSaidNo's Avatar


ComputerSaidNo
11.05.2012 , 09:33 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
I know exactly what a deception sin does (now, obviously), but curious what you mean by how to counter it. there's no counter for VS, S, DC, and it's impossible to deny your "backside" in this game for maul (180 degrees). all I can think of is when to stun (or cleanse if you're a force user), but interrupting a 2x voltaic roto doesn't mean a thing. they're instants. the buff is back in 1 gcd. anyway, that's my thinking. i'm curious about the counter...

edit: i've noticed the first thing everybody does no matter what I open with is stun (usually a dirty kick if sniper). what's with that? is that a smart move on their part? I generally try to pop dcds rather than fill resolve when stealthies hit my other toons. anyway...in those cases, is it still adviseable to open with voltaic? or would you rather get your voltaics in after a spike, eat/break the stun and then hit your proc'd abils?
What I mean is that because it's easy to see coming, it makes it easier to counter. You know when it's coming though so some options are to pop defensive cooldowns, vanish, stun the assassin. Your healers should also be aware of when they are going to burst so when they see it coming, they should be ready to toss you some extra heals. A tank can guard swap to you which will make the burst feel like a lot less.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the numbers deceptions can pull of in their burst sequence, all I'm saying is that when you can see something coming, you can prepare for it a lot better than something that comes unexpectedly.
R E D E K

RankorSSGS's Avatar


RankorSSGS
11.05.2012 , 02:09 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by ydenneksirhc View Post
Rofl dude i got mostly war hero and i crit no higher than 4.8-5k dmg and the sins attacks and high crits are all single target. The rage juggernauts can build up a buff to 4 stacks and when using smash, can AoE all targets around for nearly 7k EACH. so 3-4 targets gives you 20-25k dmg in a matter of 2-3 seconds.

And FYI, we suck at defending nodes, because we are super squishy,
Your problem here is gear, plain and simple. Mostly war hero leads me to believe that you still have some BM, and none of your WH is optimized, hence the lower numbers. Those 7k smashes are coming from full WH, optimized players. And no, not "all targets around" will be hit for 7k. You can stop spreading pointless QQ and blatant misinformation now thanks. Here's the trick, go finish your WH, and get optimized. Then you will start seeing the 6-7k hits from Deception. In equal gear, a Deception sin should NEVER EVER EVER lose to a Rage jugg or mara. Deception is hands down the best counter to smashers in the game. Why? 30% aoe damage reduction paired with Dark Embrace gives you approximately 55% aoe damage reduction. Even against optimized smashers, you will never get smashed for 4k or more. Or use Force Shroud and take a grand total of ZERO damage. And then you hit back with not 1, not 2, maybe not even 3, but possibly 4-5 5-7k hits of your own before he gets his next smash going. Shock, Discharge, Maul all will crit for 5k+ with their respective setup done (Voltaic stacks, Maul proc, Static charges.) And while it is filler, Voltaic Slash on its own can hit for 1k or more. Pretty soon he's under 30%, and then a 5k+ Assassinate finishes the job.