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Deception Sin in PvP


foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
10.24.2012 , 04:25 PM | #1
I'm having trouble with deception in WZs. but I love playing him. so maybe this is the place to ask for some advice:

my spec is pretty straightforward 2/31/8: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bZfhrRkfMRbkZf0c.2

my roto is pretty consistent: spike > 2x voltaic > shock > discharge or shock if it procs > 2x voltaic shock/maul if shock is down.

if the target is on the move, I'll force slow and throw an unbuffed shock/discharge

I keep recklessness on cd (as soon as my first 2x voltaic is done) and I try to overload saber when I'm into the voltaics or maul.

unless I get into extended fights (trying to burn down a healer alone, which never works), I don't have any problem with force management (I deprioritized maul in favor of shock). and that did up the dps a bit, but it still feels pretty weak. any tips?

also, I was in CW on our natural node at the opening of the match, and a fully optimized shadow wh came running in out of stealth, clearly hit me with his/her version of shock and maybe discharge. I was at half health before he even reached me. my gear is wh/bh; I'm at 18k hp. so I shouldn't exactly be a house of cards who gets floored in 4 hits, should I? I know the shadow was a hybrid. It was horrible though. whenever he would fight me (talking about you, Nataly!) I would drop to half health in 2 gcds.

the best I could do was shroud, sprint and cloak away. is there any particular way I should be dealing with one of those balance hybrids with the instant lift? they hit like a truck. I've never been hit so hard by a vg, a smasher or a dual wielder before.
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH

nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
10.24.2012 , 09:12 PM | #2
I run my assassin again since 1.4, and have been pvp'n and downing folks with easy. 1v1 fights, I usually come out on top, and they have next to no health in about 8 seconds..I usually open with spike, then maul maybe a couple VS, crippling slash, maul, shock, if my electrocute is off cooldown i use that so i can get behind and maul again, force slow if needed...before i do this, i hit my recklnessness and overcharge saber in stealth..

With spike / slash / electrocute off cool down, you can stun folks while you smash their face in, in under 10 seconds
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
10.25.2012 , 01:45 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
I'm having trouble with deception in WZs. but I love playing him. so maybe this is the place to ask for some advice:

my spec is pretty straightforward 2/31/8: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bZfhrRkfMRbkZf0c.2

my roto is pretty consistent: spike > 2x voltaic > shock > discharge or shock if it procs > 2x voltaic shock/maul if shock is down.

if the target is on the move, I'll force slow and throw an unbuffed shock/discharge

I keep recklessness on cd (as soon as my first 2x voltaic is done) and I try to overload saber when I'm into the voltaics or maul.

unless I get into extended fights (trying to burn down a healer alone, which never works), I don't have any problem with force management (I deprioritized maul in favor of shock). and that did up the dps a bit, but it still feels pretty weak. any tips?

also, I was in CW on our natural node at the opening of the match, and a fully optimized shadow wh came running in out of stealth, clearly hit me with his/her version of shock and maybe discharge. I was at half health before he even reached me. my gear is wh/bh; I'm at 18k hp. so I shouldn't exactly be a house of cards who gets floored in 4 hits, should I? I know the shadow was a hybrid. It was horrible though. whenever he would fight me (talking about you, Nataly!) I would drop to half health in 2 gcds.

the best I could do was shroud, sprint and cloak away. is there any particular way I should be dealing with one of those balance hybrids with the instant lift? they hit like a truck. I've never been hit so hard by a vg, a smasher or a dual wielder before.
Its probably just a gear issue, just hang in there and things will start going your way. Couple of hints I could give you is pick your targets, Attack anything with 16k health or lower, 17k-18k health targets if they have light armor and run from anything 19k and above. Next just exploit the hell out of Dark Embrace. Use your black out talent 6 seconds after you come out of stealth, gives you 12 seconds of 50% increased damage reduction. Then Force Cloak and start your 12 seconds all over again. Last tip, Focus Fire. Use your team to your advantage follow a Mara or Jugg around and just attack their targets, this should keep you alive longer and give you a good feel for this spec and its rotations.

thefishdude's Avatar


thefishdude
10.26.2012 , 08:01 AM | #4
I've leveled a shadow & a sin as infiltration/deception, but I switched over to Tank spec for both of them. With the 1.4 changes, I tried that spec again, but after one week, i still switched back to Tank spec.

As a Sin Tank now, I purposely hunt down deception Sins, because they are still easy to kill. So, IMO, just try running a Sin Tank and you might never go back to the deception tree again.





p.s. if you do want to run a dps spec, you should try madness
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cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.26.2012 , 08:43 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by thefishdude View Post
I've leveled a shadow & a sin as infiltration/deception, but I switched over to Tank spec for both of them. With the 1.4 changes, I tried that spec again, but after one week, i still switched back to Tank spec.

As a Sin Tank now, I purposely hunt down deception Sins, because they are still easy to kill. So, IMO, just try running a Sin Tank and you might never go back to the deception tree again.





p.s. if you do want to run a dps spec, you should try madness
Well I kind of agree with you and kind of don't. When I am speced deception which is most of the time most sins running dark charge are not that good they just think running it makes them competitive for some reason, when I face a good darkness sin then the fight is much closer and are pretty fun fights.

As for madness the damage numbers are kind of skewed for me, I have hit 600k a few times with madness and yet to do so with deception but with madness you get a good chunk of your AoE from DF while deception is more single target burst. I find deception is more fun to play over madness but I do enjoy them both over the snooze fest that darkness is. My gear is more power/surge heavy at the moment but I kept all my crit mods/enhancements for when I want to switch over to madness.

Not saying darkness sucks, you can put out amazing numbers and protection and still after buffs to deception is the best build we have.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
10.26.2012 , 09:19 AM | #6
yeah. I have very little problem soloing ppl from stealth who are at my gear lvl or below. that wasn't really my issue. but...how often can I really complete a 1v1 before someone else shows up? it's frustratingly rare. I have to assume it's that I'm not pumping out enough dps for one reason or another. I'm usually on the verge of finishing one guy off until his reinforcements arrive.

I also don't think twice about taking on a tankasin (or any tank for that matter). it's the damn hybrids that spec into the shared tree that wreck me and I have no idea how to deal with them short of just stealthing away. :|
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.26.2012 , 09:49 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
yeah. I have very little problem soloing ppl from stealth who are at my gear lvl or below. that wasn't really my issue. but...how often can I really complete a 1v1 before someone else shows up? it's frustratingly rare. I have to assume it's that I'm not pumping out enough dps for one reason or another. I'm usually on the verge of finishing one guy off until his reinforcements arrive.

I also don't think twice about taking on a tankasin (or any tank for that matter). it's the damn hybrids that spec into the shared tree that wreck me and I have no idea how to deal with them short of just stealthing away. :|
Well for tank sins watch for the proc to energize, that's one of the hardest hitting abilities and when you should use shroud. When they hit shroud hit them with low slash and wait. Kite them around you have better burst than them but they have as much dps as you so what usually it comes down to is your burst vs there defenses and armor rating.

Elyna_'s Avatar


Elyna_
10.26.2012 , 02:56 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
I'm having trouble with deception in WZs. but I love playing him. so maybe this is the place to ask for some advice:

my spec is pretty straightforward 2/31/8: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bZfhrRkfMRbkZf0c.2

my roto is pretty consistent: spike > 2x voltaic > shock > discharge or shock if it procs > 2x voltaic shock/maul if shock is down.

if the target is on the move, I'll force slow and throw an unbuffed shock/discharge

I keep recklessness on cd (as soon as my first 2x voltaic is done) and I try to overload saber when I'm into the voltaics or maul.

unless I get into extended fights (trying to burn down a healer alone, which never works), I don't have any problem with force management (I deprioritized maul in favor of shock). and that did up the dps a bit, but it still feels pretty weak. any tips?

also, I was in CW on our natural node at the opening of the match, and a fully optimized shadow wh came running in out of stealth, clearly hit me with his/her version of shock and maybe discharge. I was at half health before he even reached me. my gear is wh/bh; I'm at 18k hp. so I shouldn't exactly be a house of cards who gets floored in 4 hits, should I? I know the shadow was a hybrid. It was horrible though. whenever he would fight me (talking about you, Nataly!) I would drop to half health in 2 gcds.

the best I could do was shroud, sprint and cloak away. is there any particular way I should be dealing with one of those balance hybrids with the instant lift? they hit like a truck. I've never been hit so hard by a vg, a smasher or a dual wielder before.

Foxmob when looking at your spec you have wasted points imo... You should have 2 in entropic field for the 6% dmg reduction with 3 stacks and 1 in resourcefulness to reduce the cd on overcharge saber for more burst opportunities and longer survivability. Static Cling and Magnetism are not worth putting points in when you can get that kind of dmg reduction and a shorter dps cd.

As far as all this talk about Tank Spec and Madness is concerned....Deception has the best burst/single target dps bar none. In a 1vs1 it can take down anything its a matter of managing your cd's. When another assassin gets jump on you they have an advantage just like a rogue in a 1 vs 1, but its not impossible to turn the tables.

cycao gave you good tips on what to look for and low slashing when they have shroud up is important although it can get dodged its extremely useful. I rarely open with spike in a 1 on 1 because the 3 cc's I would rather use before they hit full resolve is Low Slash > Electrocute and Force cloaking into Mind Snap to Seethe back HP. (Also good in the event someone else shows up to mind snap them and finish your target or exit) Its also better if your trying to escape and use electrocute> if they break it you can still low slash them into a whirlwind for easy get away. Again this is 1 vs 1 scenario.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
10.26.2012 , 03:48 PM | #9
what do you do for accuracy? I'm at like 111% force acc atm and ~101% melee. I'm still picking up gear so I don't pay much attention to min/max yet, but isn't maul melee and shock force? seems like i'm wasting acc but then don't have enough between the two core attacks.

edit: re static cling et all, I do think that's a good idea. I went with the "pvp" build and the "pray I have a healer" mentality. I'll definitely play with that though. I hadn't even considered taking points away from there. I was so consternated as to why noxxic would leave 6% maul dmg for a reduced cd on overcharge. but your suggestion keeps both.
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH

thefishdude's Avatar


thefishdude
10.26.2012 , 04:17 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
When they hit shroud hit them with low slash and wait.

Hold on a second. When I pop Force Shroud, you'll then hit me with low slash and wait?? You do realize that Force Shroud protects from all force and tech attacks right? Your low slash won't work on a Sin that's popped it.....

http://www.torhead.com/ability/3qAwuaY/force-shroud
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