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An in-depth look at: Lightsaber Forms- Jar'Kai

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
An in-depth look at: Lightsaber Forms- Jar'Kai

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.23.2012 , 06:09 PM | #1
"The Dark Side is strong in me, for I am Sith."- Asajj Ventress, practitioner of Jar'Kai

Jar'Kai is the use of Niman, and other forms, using dual-lightsabers. Jar'Kai's fighting style is similar to Juyo and Ataru, maintaining a strong offense. But Jar'Kai is a platform for the use of other forms while dual-wielding. Asajj Ventress combined Jar'Kai with Makashi. Mace Windu combined Jar'Kai with Vaapad on a mission on Haruun Kal.

The use of Jar'Kai is generally an offensive form, but some duelists use the secondary lightsaber as a defensive guard. This has its vulnerabilities, as the off-hand is not as strong as the main-hand, and could allow a break in defense. The majority of Jar'Kai users use both blades in their attack.

Jar'Kai's weaknesses vary, but the greatest of these is its defensive capabilities, or lack thereof. A user of a single blade can simply batter the defenses of a Jar'Kai user, slowly wearing away their defenses. This is shown in Anakin Skywalker's duel with Asajj Ventress on Yavin 4. But this weakness is conquered when the Jar'Kai user focuses of physical strength.
A second weakness is the fact that wielding dual lightsabers is difficult to control, and takes quite some time to train. This is one of the reasons the Jedi generally avoid dual-wielding, instead focusing on perfecting their single-blade abilities.
Focusing on Jar'Kai's offensive abilities will also deprive a user of time to enhance their abilities in the Force. This would allow a powerful Force user to defeat jar'Kai users in a Force battle.
The final weakness is shown when a Jar'Kai user loses their second blade. This can leave some users at a loss, and could lead to their defeat.

Overall, the Form is very offensive and can be very powerful in the right hands. We see this is the case with Exar Kun, who was one of the most proficient users of Jar'Kai/Niman, but was also very powerful in the Force.

I realize that this thread was much shorter than the previous ones, but I hope it was still informative or at least a good read.

Here is Vaapad if you missed it: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=546544

The next thread in this particular series will discuss the lightsaber prowess of the masters of these Forms. So look forward to that!

If you have a topic you would like to see in the future, post it below or PM me.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.23.2012 , 06:54 PM | #2
I feel like, unless you spend a LOT of time practicing with Jar'kai, that having two lightsabers is a hinderance to you. I feel like a defensive/sturdy form practitioner (like Soresu and Djem So) would rip a Jar'kai practitioner to shreds.
I think that Jar'kai is ideal for countering a more loose/offensive form (like Juyo or Ataru).

Good read!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.23.2012 , 06:59 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I feel like, unless you spend a LOT of time practicing with Jar'kai, that having two lightsabers is a hinderance to you. I feel like a defensive/sturdy form practitioner (like Soresu and Djem So) would rip a Jar'kai practitioner to shreds.
I think that Jar'kai is ideal for countering a more loose/offensive form (like Juyo or Ataru).

Good read!
It does take a lot of training. Working the secong lightsaber into your attack without hitting yourself. It does end up being worth it, because a Jar'Kai master can be a real force in battle.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.24.2012 , 08:39 AM | #4
Well it's all about the user.

There are plenty of dual weilding people in other fantasies and in SW that can be almost difficult to beat.

I'll list a few. Drizzt Do'Urden, Artemis Enteriri, Ioan Gruffud's Lancelot from "King Arthur", Exar Kun.

While it does take a LONG time to master, true master's of jer'kai don't just focus one offense or defense. They are the ones who can move from one to the other and do it so fluidly that it is difficult to get past their defenses.

Yes you can beat their defenses, but a true master of their styles, good luck.

Imagine Drizzt Do'urden with a pair of Shoto lightsabers, or Aretmis Enterir with a saber and shoto, and both could use the force? -shudders- Any other swordsmen eat your hearts out.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.24.2012 , 09:04 AM | #5
What do you think our characters in TOR use?
Being:
Sith Sorcerer
Sith Assassin
Sith Juggernaut
SIth Marauder

Jedi Sentinel
Jedi Guardian
Jedi Sage
Jedi Shadow

Personally I think my Sith Juggernaut (being a tank) uses Soresu mainly with a bit of Ataru mixed in their to make up for the lack of attack power, seeing as a lot of her moves are quite acrobatic.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.24.2012 , 09:16 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
What do you think our characters in TOR use?
Being:
Sith Sorcerer
Sith Assassin
Sith Juggernaut
SIth Marauder

Jedi Sentinel
Jedi Guardian
Jedi Sage
Jedi Shadow

Personally I think my Sith Juggernaut (being a tank) uses Soresu mainly with a bit of Ataru mixed in their to make up for the lack of attack power, seeing as a lot of her moves are quite acrobatic.
Actually for the Juggernaut i'd be more along the lines of Shien/Djem-so since shien is an offensive form of blaster defense and that is where the style of re-directing blaster shots back at the enemy came from, and then with sme Ataru thrown in.

Because Sith Juggernauts would use more strength in their blows, but it's just my opinion.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
10.24.2012 , 10:07 AM | #7
Is fighting with a full lightsaber and a lightsaber shoto (short lightsaber) also considered Jar'Kai? Because from the capabilities it's the opposite of what was described. The shoto doesn't boost your offense, but your defense. (Without looking further into it, I think the short length kind of compensates the weakness against strong slashs, especially if you stop them at the upper half of the opponents blade.)


Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
What do you think our characters in TOR use?
Being:
Sith Sorcerer
Sith Assassin
Sith Juggernaut
SIth Marauder

Jedi Sentinel
Jedi Guardian
Jedi Sage
Jedi Shadow

Personally I think my Sith Juggernaut (being a tank) uses Soresu mainly with a bit of Ataru mixed in their to make up for the lack of attack power, seeing as a lot of her moves are quite acrobatic.
Well, some forms are inluded as stances which grant boni.

Shii-Cho: All knights/warriors.
Makashi: not included
Soresu: Guardian/Juggernaut.
Ataru: Sentinel (Combat)/Marauder (Carnage)
Shien: Guardian (Vigilance)/Juggernaut (Vengeance) (Djem So not included)
Niman: not included
Juyo: Sentinel/Marauder

I think Niman and Makashi should be included for Sages/Sorcerers. Shadows/Assassins should get... I don't know, which form suits double-bladed sabers best? (Maybe Niman for the Balance/Madness skilltree and Makashi for the Telekinesis/Lightning skilltree. Soresu for Shadow/Assassin tanks. Maybe Ataru for the stealth dps skilltree.)

Well, my Sage (Balance spec) uses Niman in my head canon and for RP.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.24.2012 , 10:16 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
Is fighting with a full lightsaber and a lightsaber shoto (short lightsaber) also considered Jar'Kai? Because from the capabilities it's the opposite of what was described. The shoto doesn't boost your offense, but your defense. (Without looking further into it, I think the short length kind of compensates the weakness against strong slashs, especially if you stop them at the upper half of the opponents blade.)
Yes, the use of a Shoto is also a form of Jar'Kai. The shoto was introduced as an off-hand weapon because it was easier to control. But it is not common practice to do so, as many Jedi and Sith prefer the offensive capabilities of two standard lightsabers. The shoto provides defensive capabilities, whereas the second standard lightsaber provides increased offense.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.24.2012 , 04:26 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Yes, the use of a Shoto is also a form of Jar'Kai. The shoto was introduced as an off-hand weapon because it was easier to control. But it is not common practice to do so, as many Jedi and Sith prefer the offensive capabilities of two standard lightsabers. The shoto provides defensive capabilities, whereas the second standard lightsaber provides increased offense.
Actually if you think about it, shoto could be VERY useful offenisvely as well, say you lock up with your main saber close range, it would actually be easier to stab or attack with a shoto so you have less to worry about hitting yourself.

My personal style Jer'kai would actually be lightsaber with a shoto.

Single blade style, sorry i know people hate Force unleashed, but i would learn Sith Shien, hell i would learn every variation of form V.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.24.2012 , 04:37 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Actually if you think about it, shoto could be VERY useful offenisvely as well, say you lock up with your main saber close range, it would actually be easier to stab or attack with a shoto so you have less to worry about hitting yourself.

My personal style Jer'kai would actually be lightsaber with a shoto.

Single blade style, sorry i know people hate Force unleashed, but i would learn Sith Shien, hell i would learn every variation of form V.
That's actually an interesting application for the shoto. A creative use for the shoto for sure.

Yeah, I would learn Shien too. But my preferred form is Makashi.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus