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The Cartel Market is now on the Public Test Server!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The Cartel Market is now on the Public Test Server!
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Eillack's Avatar


Eillack
10.25.2012 , 07:59 AM | #71
This is very unfortunate....I play TOR to get away from grab bags...

I'm having STO flashbacks....
With unity, comes strength...with strength, comes power...with power...comes obedience.....
CE Owner '09 Account
Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post
..I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough.

ZeroPlus's Avatar


ZeroPlus
10.25.2012 , 09:31 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Yrkul View Post
I think you missed the detail about not being able to wear purple quality gear. Furthermore, the cap on warzone commendations bars F2P players from acquiring top tier PvP weapons. In effect, TOR becomes a "Pay to Win" game.
Purple gear? If we were talking about Purple gear when the game launched I "might" agree with you because back then Purple gear was not fully moddable. Right now "orange" gear is just as good as "Purple" gear with the same level mods. Besides, if this really is a big deal to the player on the F2P account he can unlock the option or subscribe. Not being able to wear Purple gear doesn't prevent them playing the game. I don't agree with the "Pay to Win" statement.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yrkul View Post
Do note that Section X will be restricted. Paid access or subs. While not a whole planet in itself, it is still part of the gameworld in exactly the same way as other open world sectors.
Quite right. It is however *new* content that *noone* has access to right now. When it is released subscribers get it for being subscribers, F2P can unlock it or subscribe. Not getting a 7th companion doesn't prevent them from playing the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yrkul View Post
I don't know about your playstyle, but my rotations alone take up half an actionbar. Then comes 2-4 AoE, 3-4 heals for those with access to that, 2-5 CC abilities, 3-8 escapes/ stealth and survival abilities, 3-5 medkits stims and adrenals, 1-3+ relics/grenades and other equipment used on the fly. Then comes the buffs, recuperation and reload abilities. Without convenience abilities like fast travel, speeders and such, I easily fill 3 bars with abilities I need fast access to.

What you call "convenience", I and probably others call a necessity.
Note that you are essentially agreeing with me. Half an actionbar is taken up by your rotation. Those are your "core" abilities that you *need* on the bar. All the others are there "just in case". Personally, I have all 4 bars filled with the abilities that you listed . However, I will use the "core" abilities constantly but the others once in a blue moon. If I had to I could live without them. More than one bar is not *needed* to function, but it is convenient to have them so I don't need to open my abilities window or inventory to use the spell/item. Again, you get full convenience as a subscriber and if you want an additional bar (or bars) as a F2P you can unlock them or subscribe.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yrkul View Post
This is VERY subjective. Most MMOs offer the helmet visibility option from the start, be it P2P or F2P, and while not necessary to playing the game in the basic sense, it is often vital to the players identification of him/herself in the character and the immersive aspect of the game.
I agree. It is important for player identification. But... it is still a convenience and not essential to playing the game. We are back to, if it is important to you either unlock the option or subscribe.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yrkul View Post
It is doubtful, that F2P players will find it PvP enjoyable getting roflstomped by players in high end gear, without the ability to get equipped well enough to be competitive. A lot of F2P and P-once2P offer the PvP experience without these restrictions.
You assume that they will only start to PvP at 50 where gear is king. That might not be the case. Also, as far as I can tell, F2P will still be able to get Recruit gear and Battlemaster gear (at a higher cost). If they enjoy the PvP, they can, you guessed it, unlock it or subscribe.

Quote: Originally Posted by Yrkul View Post
They promised a F2P model and ended up with a P2W game, whose restrictions on basic gameplay is very detrimental to the playing experience from my point of view. It also stratifies the player base, creating a "paying master race" with unrestricted access to crafting, trading and prosperity. F2P players will not be able to compete with paying players, be it PvE, PvP or economically. Furthermore, there was in AoC, when it went F2P, as well as here judging from the last quote, a tendency to view non-paying players as freeloaders.

The big question is: Why would anyone even bother playing with the F2P model?

I'm very sceptical about the success of the F2P version of TOR in its current form. I myself had no intention of playing without subs anyway, so it won't affect me directly. However, I can't recommend anyone to try the game on grounds of it being F2P, as I wouldn't find it an enjoyable playing experience myself with the restrictions currently in place. The P215 version failed to attract enough players, so this hamstrung F2P(P2W) version will not do much better, let alone make old players come back.

I can recommend checking out the overviews of different facets of the F2P model on dulfy.net. It helps get a more clear picture of what is to come.
Again, I can't agree that this is a P2W model. I (note: I said "I" just as you said "from my point of view") don't believe that the restrictions are detrimental to "basic gameplay" or that it is "very" detrimental to the playing experience. You can still play the game, if you want more flexibility (read "convenience") in how you play you can unlock that flexibility or subscribe.

As for stratifing the player base, that already happens now. Those who raid and those who don't. Those who have access to certain crafting recipes and those that don't. Those that have a lot of credits and those that don't. Those who have a guild and those that don't. Etc, etc, etc. If you got that idea from the last thing you quoted from me that was not my intention. As for F2P players competing with paying customers, they can compete. With restrictions on how far they can compete. If competing on an equal footing is important to a F2P player they can unlock the PvE, PvP or economical feature that will allow them to compete (or they can subscribe ).

I know quite a few people who are very interested in the F2P release and the presented model. Over the last day, I've been sharing the information available with them (including the information on Dulfy.net) and all of them are very interested in the current model.

Like you, I have no intention of going F2P while I'm still playing this game. Unlike you though, I can see that the play experience being offered is good enough to recommend to others so they can play the game and enjoy what it does offer them for free. I disagree that this is a hamstrung F2P: the game is there for you to play; there are certain restrictions in place; those restrictions come down to "conveniences"; if they are important to you, either unlock them or subscribe. It really is that simple.

As for making old players come back. Why wouldn't it? They can come back and try the game out again for free without having to subscribe for a month to do so. If they like what they see they now have a choice: subscribe again to get back everything they had before or unlock the features they want.

I can even see the F2P being used by families to bring cousins/spouses/sons/parents into the game without having to first buy them the game and paying a subscription. Those families will be able to play the game together and enjoy it together. If those that are on F2P decide that they want the conveniences that the subscribing family members have, they can unlock what they want or subscribe.

At the end of the day, *I* really think that Bioware has delivered on their promise. If I wasn't a subscriber and I wanted to play SWTOR, *I* would definetely play this iteration of F2P that they have come up with.
If you seek answers, you must always ask questions. - Master Vandar Tokare.

[Suggestion] Add another Blaster Pistol with the "A-300 Heavy Sonic Needler" model = DONE!

Viper_RedHand's Avatar


Viper_RedHand
10.25.2012 , 09:48 AM | #73
90 coins for a fleet pass? Seriously? And I get 150 a month for subbing? Bah, imo the prices are just stupid.

NSStember's Avatar


NSStember
10.25.2012 , 09:57 AM | #74
Love all the clothing options I'm seeing as "adaptive" gear. I didn't see it, but I'm hoping a version of the Aspiring Knight's Vest will be available as well.

ZeroPlus's Avatar


ZeroPlus
10.25.2012 , 10:02 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Viper_RedHand View Post
90 coins for a fleet pass? Seriously? And I get 150 a month for subbing? Bah, imo the prices are just stupid.
As a subscriber you can pay 90 coins *or* buy them in-game with 1000 credits (from the security vendor). If you aren't a subscriber it is your choice if you want to pay 90 coins for an instant port or just spend some travel time to get to the fleet.

I believe you will get 500 a month for subscribing. See here:
http://dulfy.net/2012/10/23/swtor-cartel-market-items/
in the "Subscriber Benefits" section.
If you seek answers, you must always ask questions. - Master Vandar Tokare.

[Suggestion] Add another Blaster Pistol with the "A-300 Heavy Sonic Needler" model = DONE!

NSStember's Avatar


NSStember
10.25.2012 , 10:23 AM | #76
Would like to see a pack to reset your character look (other MMOs do this), basically taking you back to the character generation screen (after you pick your race/gender).

Would be nice to be able to add a beard, change some scars, put on some weight (or take it off), or just change the look all-to-gether. This would seem to be a cash shop natural.

chrishuck's Avatar


chrishuck
10.25.2012 , 01:44 PM | #77
why do we need to pay to play ?its not a good idea for new subscribers to get hooked.if i was a subscriber i will leave because it is so expensive to play.bot i have a sub so im not worried btw how much will cartel items cost

MetalGenocide's Avatar


MetalGenocide
10.25.2012 , 03:54 PM | #78
I may finally get a decent hooded cloak for my Sith Marauder. Still no decent hat for my beloved Vette though I want her to have the Smuggler sets.
Using 'Go-fast' stickers on my Lightsaber's increased my Alacrity Rating by point oh-oh-oh-oh eight percent!

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
10.25.2012 , 04:14 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by chrishuck View Post
why do we need to pay to play ?its not a good idea for new subscribers to get hooked.if i was a subscriber i will leave because it is so expensive to play.bot i have a sub so im not worried btw how much will cartel items cost
It's hard to tell what you meant in your post but I think you were meant ".if i wasN'T a subscriber i will leave because it is so expensive to play." In which case, I wholeheartedly agree, people who start playing the free version will quickly either sub up or give up.
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darth_doom_munky's Avatar


darth_doom_munky
10.25.2012 , 07:19 PM | #80
Wait, didnt they say that it will just be cosmetics. So whats with all the armor and weapons