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The Trooper's Rank

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
10.22.2012 , 10:25 PM | #21
***DISCLAIMER*** As a former US Army Infantryman who never had a Security Clearance I can safely say that nothing I am about to divulge is classified information. ***DISCLAIMER***

1. In the US Army our Special Forces Recruits are not even allowed to try out until at least the Rank of Specialist (e-4).

2. IF selected as a e-4 the soldier is promoted to the Rank of Sergeant (e-5) (even if they only just got promoted to e-4 and would not normally be eligible to go before a promotion board) before going to the Qualification Course.

3. By the end of the Qualification, before running a single mission, the soldier is at least a Staff_Sergeant (e-6). (again this is far faster than the normal speed of promotion)

4. A Special Forces Squad is not a normal Military Squad and is far higher ranked it's not unusual to have Master Sergeants and Sergeants Major in a Squad. They also will contain Officers (notice that was OfficerS plural) and operate as a 6 man team, with a Major or Captain in charge and a LT or Warrant Officer who will be the second in command of the squad as well.

5. Special Forces teams will directly answer to a General, I'm not saying a 4 star but normally at least a 1 star Brigadier General will be in charge of a Operation or series of Operations.

If you want to fact check any of my information please do I got a large portion of my knowledge from reading Black Hawk Down which had a General in charge of the overall mission even though the composition was a Battalion of Rangers and some SF. The rest was gathered over years of talking to SF qualified personnel, including SF Recruiters when I was interested in joining SF.
Guild leader of {Imperial} <The Betrayed> & {Republic} <xX The Betrayed Xx> on The Harbinger. Recruitment Thread
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LaniAkavir's Avatar


LaniAkavir
10.22.2012 , 11:32 PM | #22
I want the rank Private and Corporal
Combat Medic since Summer 2011

Kenji, S-1 All-Derp
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TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.23.2012 , 08:47 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Seelvir View Post
TalonVII: A little tangential, but in the real world, when the government is going to send in special forces to do a job that violates an ally's soverignty, or a job that risks creating a diplomatic or war-starting incident with an enemy, a job that is entirely illegal and that the government would deny if caught, aren't those typically carried out by paramilitary teams that are easily disavowed as opposed to uniformed military units? I've never sniffed this variety of stuff in the really real world, so I admit this is a point of ignorance.

/snip
Considering I DID have a TS/SCI clearance and i know many more things than you do, if you REALLY think that, then you are VERY naive. Stop trying to tell me about things i already know.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Vincit's Avatar


Vincit
10.23.2012 , 09:07 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by SuperGrunt View Post
***DISCLAIMER*** As a former US Army Infantryman who never had a Security Clearance I can safely say that nothing I am about to divulge is classified information. ***DISCLAIMER***

1. In the US Army our Special Forces Recruits are not even allowed to try out until at least the Rank of Specialist (e-4).

2. IF selected as a e-4 the soldier is promoted to the Rank of Sergeant (e-5) (even if they only just got promoted to e-4 and would not normally be eligible to go before a promotion board) before going to the Qualification Course.

3. By the end of the Qualification, before running a single mission, the soldier is at least a Staff_Sergeant (e-6). (again this is far faster than the normal speed of promotion)

4. A Special Forces Squad is not a normal Military Squad and is far higher ranked it's not unusual to have Master Sergeants and Sergeants Major in a Squad. They also will contain Officers (notice that was OfficerS plural) and operate as a 6 man team, with a Major or Captain in charge and a LT or Warrant Officer who will be the second in command of the squad as well.

5. Special Forces teams will directly answer to a General, I'm not saying a 4 star but normally at least a 1 star Brigadier General will be in charge of a Operation or series of Operations.

If you want to fact check any of my information please do I got a large portion of my knowledge from reading Black Hawk Down which had a General in charge of the overall mission even though the composition was a Battalion of Rangers and some SF. The rest was gathered over years of talking to SF qualified personnel, including SF Recruiters when I was interested in joining SF.
As a former Captain (Intel Branch) I can attest to much of what is in here. I led a 12 man team in the early 90s:

Me
a CWO3
A Master SGT (who, as a former 1st SGT for an infantry company got called "Top" anyhow)
two SFCs
two SSGTs
five SGTs

The CWO3 had been in service almost as long as our youngest team member had been alive. And, rank wise, my team was considered light for our Group. And I took the vast majority of my mission briefings with my WO and MSGT present and usually from a Bird Colonel, but on two occasions from a Brigadier General (I remember those well.)

Special Operations is just "different."

Oggthebase's Avatar


Oggthebase
10.23.2012 , 09:45 AM | #25
I am in agreement with the people with a military background here (I have none).

Eventhough people can argue that Star Wars is a space opera and belongs to the fantasy genre, the trooper class and background benefit from being anchored into some earth like realistic structure to create a sense of immersion.
Suspension of belief cannot sustain itself "just because the writer asked us to", especially with something as organized as an army.

My preferred missions for the trooper was when I really felt part of a unit having to lead several of my teammates into the mission.
Unfortunately, most of the time I was only running with one companion, being a one man army "killing stuff" like in Rambo or Commando.

RenaDyne's Avatar


RenaDyne
10.23.2012 , 10:52 AM | #26
Has no one ever stopped to think that "Every single aspect of the Havok Squads mission is nothing BUT giant extreme circumstances that go far above what the rank and file have to deal with"? Including a major military team turning traitor, ontop of that it being one of Garzas own super elite teams that turned?

From what I understand of the "Havok Squad" lore, is that Havok Squad is sent in to do the work that no other squad can get done, often covertly, and effectively. Their not a particular "Group" of special forces like the Pararescue or Delta squad, but one very specialized unit of 6 men. You notice theirs no "Havok platoon" or any "Havok training program". They just grab the very best of the very best at what they do, and ship them off to the absolutely most dangerous missions possible, and if they fail well; thats also covered in the trooper story line.
A living tank.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.23.2012 , 03:58 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by RenaDyne View Post
Has no one ever stopped to think that "Every single aspect of the Havok Squads mission is nothing BUT giant extreme circumstances that go far above what the rank and file have to deal with"? Including a major military team turning traitor, ontop of that it being one of Garzas own super elite teams that turned?

From what I understand of the "Havok Squad" lore, is that Havok Squad is sent in to do the work that no other squad can get done, often covertly, and effectively. Their not a particular "Group" of special forces like the Pararescue or Delta squad, but one very specialized unit of 6 men. You notice theirs no "Havok platoon" or any "Havok training program". They just grab the very best of the very best at what they do, and ship them off to the absolutely most dangerous missions possible, and if they fail well; thats also covered in the trooper story line.
It could of been the Black Sheep squadron for all i care. No special ops team cept for when the world is about end, fleet is going to be destroyed like the whole reason for chapter 2 and the Supreme commander gets involved, yeah then the general would be doing the briefing. And it wouldn't of been the CO of the squad, Gen Garza and the Supreme commander.

There would of been about 20-30 people in that briefing, generals, fleet commanders, staffers, the works.
Sorry whoever wrote the trooper story seriously didn't do his homework well.

Hell when you are sent to Balmorra a staffer or an intel officer would of given the briefing, not garza, she's got more important things to do.

And you can say syfy and all that, but you can't have a MILITARY chain of command in a game regardless of fantasy or not and then totally disregard how a military works. That's the reason a lot of us RL military members are a little peeved. Hell even in the original 3 movies, the Rebels had a chain of command.

Again just peeved at it.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Vincit's Avatar


Vincit
10.23.2012 , 07:55 PM | #28
I suppose the question becomes, then, "how real do you want it?"

Do we really want a 12 hour long briefing with a dozen chair warmers, plus the flight crews providing transport? Do we need to see some poor SGT manning a video projector or slide machine? Do we then go from that briefing to where you and your senior people start briefing your team?

While it might be funny to have your companion interrupt the briefing to point out the range on your transport helo was calculated using extra fuel bladders, but the cargo space was calculated without them meaning you have to either add a second bird or plan for a midair refueling at night, is it really needed?

Should we have a montage of the months of training before the mission?

How much reality do we need or want before it starts to get, well, boring?

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
10.24.2012 , 12:43 AM | #29
To everyone who says "it's just a game, it doesn't have to be realistic" the issue is that this is a particularly egregious example of the fictional nature of SWTOR.
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It always wins because it is everywhere.
The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
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AlyxDinas's Avatar


AlyxDinas
10.24.2012 , 12:51 AM | #30
Applying real life military ranking systems to Star Wars is like using real life science to try to explain it's technology. Pointless.
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"Perception Problem."