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The Trooper's Rank

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Seelvir's Avatar


Seelvir
10.21.2012 , 05:33 PM | #1
Since it's not a spoiler what rank the Trooper ends up in the end (since most Troopers have that rank title over their heads on the fleet), I feel safe with the following question: Why does the Republic Army promote the leader of a 6-man squad to Major? Does that make any sense?

In the real military world, the notion of that is completely ridiculous. But I'm wondering if there's something in the established lore of the Star Wars universe that helps this make sense? Normally (again, real world) a unit that small is not even commanded by an officer, let alone a major.

Also, why does the Trooper take orders straight from a general? I have a hard time imagining a general with the kind of galactic-level responsibility of Garza taking time out of her busy schedule to give operational briefings to a leiutenant, a captain, or even a major, even if that lesser officer is the commander of an elite special forces team. With a real world understanding of the military, I'm having a hard time suspending my disbelief when it comes to this apparent command and control structure.

Any ideas with this? Or should I just accept it and not worry about it making no sense?
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TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.21.2012 , 07:53 PM | #2
As a former marine, yeah i get that. Hell i worked in a 6 man team and the highest rank was a Sgt. Lts are incharge of platoons and such.

But taking orders from a general. that usually doesn't happen cept for VERY special cases. usually she'd just dictate orders to another officer like a Capt-Colonel who'd brief you.

Again...you're not totally crazy but on the other hand....
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Osetto's Avatar


Osetto
10.21.2012 , 07:59 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Seelvir View Post
Why does the Republic Army promote the leader of a 6-man squad to Major? Does that make any sense? Also, why does the Trooper take orders straight from a general?

Any ideas with this?
Pretty much every question can be answered, "Because of 'Special Forces Division'," Which Garza co-founded and is in command of.

SpecForce operates outside of traditional rules, structures, and guidelines, meaning the Trooper storyline can keep all the 'military' business without being bogged down by the 'military' business. As for why they use the specific rankings that the Republic Army uses, I'd imagine its so that when a SpecForce squad is sent to cooperate with non SpecForce forces, there isn't some weird void in the chain of command.
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TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.21.2012 , 08:03 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Osetto View Post
Pretty much every question can be answered, "Because of 'Special Forces Division'," Which Garza co-founded and is in command of.

SpecForce operates outside of traditional rules, structures, and guidelines, meaning the Trooper storyline can keep all the 'military' business without being bogged down by the 'military' business. As for why they use the specific rankings that the Republic Army uses, I'd imagine its so that when a SpecForce squad is sent to cooperate with non SpecForce forces, there isn't some weird void in the chain of command.
But think about it, she's in charge of MULTIPLE SF squads. She doesn't direct single squads alone. She would have multiple deputies, analysts, information experts and such, a COMMAND team. She'd get the intel, ask who was available with the best qualifications, tell who she wants and leave it to the team to carry it out. She'd be a tad busy to actually do day to day operations like that.

She'd have an operations officer or to who do the briefings like in a real chain of command, even in RL Spec Forces.

I mean i guess you could have a Major incharge of a team, hell a Lt Commander which is a Major leads 6-12 man S.E.A.L. Teams.
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rashencyberspeed's Avatar


rashencyberspeed
10.21.2012 , 09:08 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
But think about it, she's in charge of MULTIPLE SF squads. She doesn't direct single squads alone. She would have multiple deputies, analysts, information experts and such, a COMMAND team. She'd get the intel, ask who was available with the best qualifications, tell who she wants and leave it to the team to carry it out. She'd be a tad busy to actually do day to day operations like that.
Well, here's something to consider. The Trooper is part of Havoc Squad, which is viewed as the greatest of all the special forces. You could say they are the most elite soldiers in the specforces, and possibly the most elite soldiers in the entire republic military aside from Garza herself.

It's true that some suspension of disbelief is still necessary, but I don't think it's entirely surprising for the trooper to receive all orders from Garza.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.22.2012 , 08:39 AM | #6
even the best Spec Forces team in the US doesn't take their orders directly from Spec For CO. Never works that way unless it's a VERY high priority and there is little to no time, or it's a suicide mission.

usually even top jobs, the orders are passed down by an enlisted man or a lower level officer. It's not normal for EVERY mission to be handed down by the CO of Spec For. Now the whole reason behind chapter two, yeah i can see taking orders from the CO of SF and the other person who happens to show up, that's the time when you'd be dealing with the General.

All other missions, yes high priority, but doesn't need the CO of SF to brief you every time.
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Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
10.22.2012 , 08:49 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
even the best Spec Forces team in the US doesn't take their orders directly from Spec For CO. Never works that way unless it's a VERY high priority and there is little to no time, or it's a suicide mission.

usually even top jobs, the orders are passed down by an enlisted man or a lower level officer. It's not normal for EVERY mission to be handed down by the CO of Spec For. Now the whole reason behind chapter two, yeah i can see taking orders from the CO of SF and the other person who happens to show up, that's the time when you'd be dealing with the General.

All other missions, yes high priority, but doesn't need the CO of SF to brief you every time.
Well, I think for chapter 1 it also fits because iirc Garza wants to keep the whole [thing] as secret as possible.
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Oggthebase's Avatar


Oggthebase
10.22.2012 , 08:53 AM | #8
I asked myself the same questions and the only answer I came up with is that the guy who wrote the scenario never worked in the military and did not do any research before writing his story (as a good writer/ scenarist would do. Always research your subject in depth to increase immersion of your readers with true to life details).

That's why, eventhough the trooper story had good moments, for me it's not as great as it could have been.

Captain_Lurker's Avatar


Captain_Lurker
10.22.2012 , 09:44 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Seelvir View Post
Since it's not a spoiler what rank the Trooper ends up in the end (since most Troopers have that rank title over their heads on the fleet), I feel safe with the following question: Why does the Republic Army promote the leader of a 6-man squad to Major? Does that make any sense?

In the real military world, the notion of that is completely ridiculous. But I'm wondering if there's something in the established lore of the Star Wars universe that helps this make sense? Normally (again, real world) a unit that small is not even commanded by an officer, let alone a major.

Also, why does the Trooper take orders straight from a general? I have a hard time imagining a general with the kind of galactic-level responsibility of Garza taking time out of her busy schedule to give operational briefings to a leiutenant, a captain, or even a major, even if that lesser officer is the commander of an elite special forces team. With a real world understanding of the military, I'm having a hard time suspending my disbelief when it comes to this apparent command and control structure.

Any ideas with this? Or should I just accept it and not worry about it making no sense?
First, Star Wars is not real life. Never try to inject real life into a fantasy setting (and NEVER inject physics into a anime, it causes a cat-girl to die!).

Second, the Republic military is NOT the US or ANY known Earth military (at best it is kind of like the British military around the time of the British Empire and World War 1, and a little as the Aliies in World War 2 as below). The Republic military has a galaxy wide Army, Navy, Special Forces, Military Intelligence, ect. and then most planets or sectors have their own military (Army, Navy, Special Forces, ect). The Republic military has no "non-commisioned officers vs officer school graduate officers" (Sergeants vs Lieutenants and up). It appears that all military personell recieve the same basic training and if deemed worthy of promotion to the rank of officer recieve it (if they recieve additional training or if they all have basic leadership training is unknown).

The Republic military leadership is not very cut and dry and therfor does not have the simplicity that the US military does (it could be compared to the Aliies of World War 2). The Republic militray lacks the US military's central authority and cohesion. Republic military personell deemed important could be given higher ranking to ensure that it is less likely an officer not directly affiliated with that persons direct command cannot as easily "pull rank" and hijack or derail a mission (much like how Eisenhower was made a 5 Star General, even though the rank didnt actually exist before then, so he could use his special rank to keep the other military leaders in line). By putting a General in charge of the Special Forces, Garza could not be "comandeered" for the use of some far-flung military. And by giving Havoc Squad an officer of significant rank also allows him/her more authority to put the squads resources where felt to be best, and if need be comandeer local military personell.

Spoiler

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.22.2012 , 09:44 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
Well, I think for chapter 1 it also fits because iirc Garza wants to keep the whole [thing] as secret as possible.
even then you wouldn't see that. watch the movie "Act of Valor" That S.E.A.L. team couldn't of been more covert if they tried doing ops in MEXICO of all places. They didn't get their Op order from the commander of S.E.A.Ls. No they got their mission from the Senior Chief who was the interrogator.

And when they got re-directed into mexico, they got their mission from i think the CO or XO on the ship they were stationed on, and another time they got their briefing from a Navy Intel LT.

Never once did i see a Admiral/General give them their op orders.

I mean in chapter 1, i could see Garza welcoming them in and sitting in on the briefing and then offer in her 2 cents, but doing the op order herself, sorry, that was ALL WRONG.
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