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Reactive shield SUCKS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Reactive shield SUCKS

HBMalachorfive's Avatar


HBMalachorfive
10.25.2012 , 06:01 PM | #21
What BW really need to do is split the def CD's into advanced classes to make it more even. I know as a Vanguard tank in a WZ if i pop reactive shield, adrenalin rush and smoke grenade i'm pretty much untouchable for the duration (mainly because i play with fools on our server who think its a good idea to give me full resolve at the same time lol). As for commandos i know its a downright pain to fend off melee dps but i think BW are thinking along the lines that commando's, even if they are spec'd for dps, can drop healing abilites if necessary. Just my thoughts but if DC's we're split properly into advanced classes we may see commando's back in the wz's

Royox's Avatar


Royox
10.25.2012 , 08:36 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Not only that, if you turn on Ion cell which kicks up your armor rating by an extra 60% almost doubles your absorption and shield rating, then click on reactive shield, come on, you take almost NO DAMAGE for 12 seconds.

How bout you try using it with a shield on and Ion cell, then try to cry about how much reactive shield sucks. And ontop of it, something else i do, i hit adrenaline rush at the same time...then you really take no damage.

COME ON THINK! Use and UNDERSTAND your abilities. Took me all of a minute to figure that out.
If I have not enought problem for killing marauders and juggs now I have to stop moving, change cell (castied), use my Shield, and when its effect is finished I have to stop again and change my cell again?

I will be dead b4 activating my shield dude.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.26.2012 , 01:22 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Royox View Post
I will be dead b4 activating my shield dude.
The individual you're quoting to has no idea what he's talking about.

Without being in tank spec and tank gear, all you're gonna get out of a shield + tank spec is 20% shield and 20% absorb rating (which amounts to 4% mitigation, which is not that much, considering you get 5% from your baseline defense) and increased armor (~5k armor turns into ~8k, which is an improvement of ~30% to 42.5%). The shield is going to be almost entirely useless to you. Of course, by switching into Ion Cell, you completely gimp your damage output for the duration, assuming the person lets you get the cast off in the first place (it can be interrupted). With Reactive Shield active, the difference between taking 32.5% and 45% of incoming damage, which means you'd be taking 72% of the damage of someone that didn't stance dance. It's an improvement, but, considering how hard you're gimping your damage output, unless you've got friends to kill your opponent, you're going to die.

No matter how you gauge it, honestly, Reactive Shield is pretty bad as far as a survivability CD goes. Let's compare it to its competition (5% Defense and 30% K/E DR assumed since we're talking DPS here, this amounts to 33.5% effective mitigation):

Shadow (assumed to have 10% Defense and 25% K/E DR for 32.5% effective mitigation)
Deflection: same CD, same duration; the difference is between 25% DR and 50% Defense. A Trooper gets cranked up to 57.25% effective mitigation. A Shadow gets cranked up to 70% effective mitigation. They start off with pretty much effective mitigation without it and Shadows get cranked up *substantially* higher.
By the way, you probably noticed I'm ignoring the whole "M/R only" aspect of Deflection whereas Reactive Shield applies to everything. This is because Shadows also have Resilience which is stupidly amazing and pretty much takes care of any F/T attacks that they might face. Reactive Shield pales in comparison to *both* Resilience and Deflection.

Guardian (assumed to have 5% Defense and 30% K/E DR, which is identical to Troopers)
Saber Ward: same duration, but it's on a longer CD; Troopers still get up to 57.25% effective mitigation while Guardians are brought up to 86.5% mitigation (ignoring the fact that Guardians also get 100% m/r defense for the first 2 seconds of Saber Ward so it's even better). Saber Ward provides *even more* for Guardians. Because of the 25% F/T DR, against those attacks, Saber Ward breaks even with Reactive Shield. As such, since it's *so* much better for M/R attacks than Reactive Shield, even with the longer CD, I'm gonna have to err on the side of Guardians (not to mention that Guardians also get Enure and Focused Defense compared to just Adrenaline Rush, which also gives them an extra edge in the "self healing CD" department.

Sentinels (assumed to have 5% Defense and 25% K/E DR, for 28.75% effective mitigation)
Sentinels have Guarded By The Force (90 sec CD for 99% DR for 4 secs at the cost of 50% of your current hp; use this at low hp or while a healer is looking at you and you can lol at anyone that attempts to kill you), Saber Ward (just like the Guardian version, but, thanks to lower base mitigation, only brings them up to 66.25%, which is still substantially better than that of Troopers), Force Camouflage (45 second CD, 4 seconds of not being able to be targeted and 50/100% DR while it's active), and Rebuke (20% DR on a 60 sec CD that either gives you a 30 sec duration or 100% DR for 6 seconds, since, to have it end that quickly the target has to stop attacking you). There's no argument that *each and every single one* of those is better than Reactive Shield. If you insist on arguing, consider that there are 3 different abilities that provide the Sentinel with almost guaranteed 100% DR for a short period on relatively short CDs and there are *4* of them to the Trooper's 1 (2 if you count Adrenaline Rush, which is pretty laughably bad, honestly).

The only ACs that don't have direct competition for Reactive Shield are Sages (Force Armor + Force Mend doesn't really count) and Smugglers (Dodge + Defense Screen are about the same as what Sages get). *However*, both of these classes get superior mobility and/or utility (Concussive Round + Concussion Charge + Stock Strike doesn't really equal Rescue + Force Slow + Force Lift + Force Speed + Force Wave; don't even get me started on everything that the 2 different Smuggler ACs get...).

As survivability CDs are concerned, Reactive Shield is pretty much the absolute worst in the game, which puts Troopers in a pretty annoying state when you consider that it's their *only* major survivability CD, for Commandos *or* Vanguards. It's not like heavy armor even provides all that much. Even with light armor, the native buffs and abilities that the other classes get to "make up for it" turn heavy armor into a null point. The difference in performance just isn't there.
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af_raptura's Avatar


af_raptura
10.26.2012 , 01:38 AM | #24
I always feel like I learn so much after reading Kitru's posts. Too bad that I really like my powertech and I am forced to deal with only this as my major cooldown.
PvE theorycrafting has really loosened their standards.
Quote: Originally Posted by karlwaite View Post
As for the skill changes to benefit pvp likes of the fly by damage reduction they suffered and reducing focused defence by 200% is a joke they are affecting pve to benefit pvp.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.26.2012 , 08:39 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The individual you're quoting to has no idea what he's talking about.
/snip
I don't eh. Well maybe it's just the new guy, but i thought as a tank my job is NOT to deal damage, but to be the guy that SOAKS damage. Or did I get the whole tank thing wrong?

I thought my job was to be that distraction[and hope like hell a healer is near by] take the damage from the other side and leave the guys who CAN do dps there so they can take down the enemy.

Or did i miss something? Cause if i did...please explain.
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xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
10.26.2012 , 08:43 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by HBMalachorfive View Post
What BW really need to do is split the def CD's into advanced classes to make it more even. I know as a Vanguard tank in a WZ if i pop reactive shield, adrenalin rush and smoke grenade i'm pretty much untouchable for the duration (mainly because i play with fools on our server who think its a good idea to give me full resolve at the same time lol). As for commandos i know its a downright pain to fend off melee dps but i think BW are thinking along the lines that commando's, even if they are spec'd for dps, can drop healing abilites if necessary. Just my thoughts but if DC's we're split properly into advanced classes we may see commando's back in the wz's
to bad those heals suck hard while on DPS

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.26.2012 , 09:05 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
I don't eh. Well maybe it's just the new guy, but i thought as a tank my job is NOT to deal damage, but to be the guy that SOAKS damage. Or did I get the whole tank thing wrong?
You recommended that someone playing DPS switch to the tank stance and use a shield to give themselves a bit of survivability. That's not knowing what you're talking about.

If I somehow misconstrued you saying "turn on Ion Cell... then click on Reactive Shield" as a recommendation to switch to Tank spec rather than hot switching to your tank stance as a DPS spec, you *still* have no idea what you're talking about. It's a well known fact amongst all of the tanks that VGs have the worst survivability CDs and that Reactive Shield is the weakest of them all. It doesn't matter what you might think of it. If you honestly think that it somehow turns you into an unkillable god (hinthint, it doesn't; with an 18/60/60/54 mitigation loadout, a VG tank pulls ~75.8% mitigation; a Shadow in 30/65/60/40 loadout is going to manage ~77% mitigation after factoring in self heals; with Reactive Shield and Deflection active, those numbers change to 89.0% and 92.7%, respectively; Shadows still have it better regardless), you've got no clue what you're talking about.

You're speaking as someone that understands the bare minimum of how the game operates without a modicum of the understanding of the underlying math. You don't know what you're talking about because, when you actually compare Reactive Shield against pretty much *every other* survivability CD in the game, it loses out. Troopers, as a whole, are screwed in the CD department. It's not opinion. It's fact.
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xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
10.26.2012 , 03:22 PM | #28
@Kitru
agreed with pretty much everything you said... i do think sentinels/marauders have way to many Defensive cooldowns for a MDPS class... but anyway when i use reactive shield on my mando, i jstill ust go down as a bag of potatoes doesnt help much, so yeah.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.26.2012 , 03:27 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
You recommended that someone playing DPS switch to the tank stance and use a shield to give themselves a bit of survivability. That's not knowing what you're talking about.

If I somehow misconstrued you saying "turn on Ion Cell... then click on Reactive Shield" as a recommendation to switch to Tank spec rather than hot switching to your tank stance as a DPS spec, you *still* have no idea what you're talking about. It's a well known fact amongst all of the tanks that VGs have the worst survivability CDs and that Reactive Shield is the weakest of them all. It doesn't matter what you might think of it. If you honestly think that it somehow turns you into an unkillable god (hinthint, it doesn't; with an 18/60/60/54 mitigation loadout, a VG tank pulls ~75.8% mitigation; a Shadow in 30/65/60/40 loadout is going to manage ~77% mitigation after factoring in self heals; with Reactive Shield and Deflection active, those numbers change to 89.0% and 92.7%, respectively; Shadows still have it better regardless), you've got no clue what you're talking about.

You're speaking as someone that understands the bare minimum of how the game operates without a modicum of the understanding of the underlying math. You don't know what you're talking about because, when you actually compare Reactive Shield against pretty much *every other* survivability CD in the game, it loses out. Troopers, as a whole, are screwed in the CD department. It's not opinion. It's fact.
ok fine so i don't know as much as you, don't have to be condensending.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.26.2012 , 05:07 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
ok fine so i don't know as much as you, don't have to be condensending.
You start the snark, and I start the condescension. You wanted me to explain why you were wrong and got snarky with suggesting that I was someone intimating that tanks shouldn't be tanky (sadly enough, in PvP, there's a hefty bit of support for Tanks running with DPS mods, so it's kinda true in that instance). The fact that you ended up wrong because you were speaking without a proper understanding of the topic at hand rather than being validated in your opinion doesn't provide you with moral high ground. You could have stopped when you were pretty much proven wrong in my first post when I threw out a lot of outright math and information about the comparative effects and benefits of Reactive Shield for the various classes, but you were more interested in trying to salvage some of your pride rather than admitting you were wrong. I didn't get up in your face until you *asked* me to, so it's your own fault.
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