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Guardians needing Medium armor when I run flashpoints using my Sentinel.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Guardians needing Medium armor when I run flashpoints using my Sentinel.

Knockerz's Avatar


Knockerz
10.21.2012 , 05:55 AM | #21
I don't see a problem with this. This isn't wow or some other mmorpg where the armor type has no mods that give the piece of gear it's stats. Thus, you can equally rip the mods from heavy armor. Mathematically, a dps guardian or sentinel have equal chance of acquiring a piece of gear or mods if both need on dps gear regardless of armor type. I'm wager eventually people will start doing that by default since the gear or armor it self doesn't give the stats. Now if mods had a limitation as heavy mods can be placed in heavy armor, then you have a point, but no mods have such a limitation.
Fiery the angels fell; deep thunder rolled around their shores; burning with the fires of Orc

Knockerz's Avatar


Knockerz
10.21.2012 , 06:00 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Heimskringla View Post
I don't know. In my guild and on Hyperspace Cannon (and now The Harbinger) rolling need on anything not explicitly designed for your current role and class has always been considered bad form, unless you ask first. In most of the groups I have been in, the Guardian would have either been kicked from the group or allowed to finish the current run and then ignored after. I don't know if Group Finder has led to a change in social norms for loot rolls, but what the Guardian did would have been considered as much of a transgression of norms as rolling need for companion gear.
It shouldn't be a problem. Each server will have their own set of rules that are unspoken, but understood. However, if BW ever implements a cross server lfg you can kiss goodbye to your home server rules. People will start needing on any thing remotely that they can use. This was the case when lfg went cross server in wow.
Fiery the angels fell; deep thunder rolled around their shores; burning with the fires of Orc

KorbanShepard's Avatar


KorbanShepard
10.21.2012 , 07:14 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Knockerz View Post
I don't see a problem with this. This isn't wow or some other mmorpg where the armor type has no mods that give the piece of gear it's stats. Thus, you can equally rip the mods from heavy armor. Mathematically, a dps guardian or sentinel have equal chance of acquiring a piece of gear or mods if both need on dps gear regardless of armor type. I'm wager eventually people will start doing that by default since the gear or armor it self doesn't give the stats. Now if mods had a limitation as heavy mods can be placed in heavy armor, then you have a point, but no mods have such a limitation.
btw, part of the problem is that this dude (or dudette) was a tank. So why would they need dps?

I have a solution. At the top of every pug I get on board with in a flashpoint, if there is a Guardian there, I'm going to openly state that if they roll need on my medium armor then I will not refrain from rolling need on their heavy armor. It's not right that the sentinel class should be gimped from their own armor set just because somebody is being greedy for mods.

KorbanShepard's Avatar


KorbanShepard
10.21.2012 , 07:27 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Alec_Fortescue View Post
Guardians can need a medium armor if it has the mods they're after. They're not strictly tanks. You can do the same wit heavy if you're in need of the mods. I used to roll for agent gloves from Boarding Party ages ago because it was the only way to get adept enhancement 24. Was funny watching raging agents but that's the way this game works. You must, sometimes, roll for other class' items in order to get best equipment in slot.

You're the one doing it wrong by putting people on the ignore lists for doing flashpoints in order to ugprade themselves, which is the same thing that you're doing. Needing for mods is not ninjing.
Needing mods without asking for the armor type you have is. I could have used that armor in the long term to continually upgrade whereas the guardian would not. The Guardian wasn't even a dps. It was a tank.

BTW, I'm not wrong for putting somebody on an ignore list. How stupid is it to assert that somehow I am wrong for that when it does us both a service not to play with one another if our ethical/moral outlook is at odds to extreme which we can not play by the same rules?

I managed to be a decent human being (of all things) when I ran my jugg. I didn't need on maurader equip and I can promise you that I came out just fine. Wanting the best equipment doesn't mean you should be an unethical douchebag

itsmymillertime's Avatar


itsmymillertime
10.21.2012 , 07:43 AM | #25
Probability of Loot Drops (Before bias)

Aim (25 percent)
Willpower (25 percent)
Cunning (25 percent)
Strength (12.5 percent Medium)(12.5 percent Heavy)

How is that fair to roll roll need on strength gear as long as it does not belong to someone else in the group?

DarknessInLight's Avatar


DarknessInLight
10.21.2012 , 08:26 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by KorbanShepard View Post
Title says it all.

My question: what can be done about this? Of course I ignore the person immediately after the flashpoint so that I don't risk teaming up with a greedy a**, but is there much else any one can think of? I thought about starting to need on their heavy armor to drive the point home. It just seems so stupid, particularly with custom armor since they are going to drop it later on because medium custom armor isn't as good as heavy custom armor .
I have bad news for you. I have a Guardian. I use the GREED button when I roll for loot that isn't necessarily meant for my toon specifically. Perhaps I'm going to use it for one of my companions, perhaps I'm not. Maybe I am going to strip the gear for the mods and apply them to a companions armor, or maybe even my own? I have just as much right to roll for the loot that dropped as you do. That's the whole point to the roll and the GREED button.

Quote:
If there isn't any other viable alternative, can perhaps Bioware set up a system to where if you are a heavy armor, you can't use light and medium and so on and so forth. At least then the incentive is lessened greatly to have other players yank armor that you really could use.
That system IS in the game. I can't use medium or light armor with my Guardian. I CAN strip those gears of mods if I rolled for it and WON the gear. You're suggesting that we shouldn't be allowed to roll for loot drops when we helped and (in so many cases for the Guardian) defeated the NPC that dropped the loot, enabling you to even get a chance to roll for the loot?

Yeah, good luck with that.....
Jedi do not fight for Peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading, as slogans always are. Jedi fight for Civilization, because only Civilization creates Peace. - Jedi Master Mace Windu

Heezdedjim's Avatar


Heezdedjim
10.21.2012 , 08:46 AM | #27
I don't see the problem with this. In a PUG setting, if the gear matches the primary stat for your class, you should feel free to need it. End of story. Nobody gripes when a Commando and a Vanguard both need on the same piece of aim gear, or a Sage and a Shadow both need on a willpower saber.

What pisses me off is when some cheeky Sentinel hits "need" on the light armor Columi gloves that my Shadow actually DOES NEED, because he "can use it for his pet."

Kendaric's Avatar


Kendaric
10.21.2012 , 08:51 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by DarknessInLight View Post
I have bad news for you. I have a Guardian. I use the GREED button when I roll for loot that isn't necessarily meant for my toon specifically. Perhaps I'm going to use it for one of my companions, perhaps I'm not. Maybe I am going to strip the gear for the mods and apply them to a companions armor, or maybe even my own? I have just as much right to roll for the loot that dropped as you do. That's the whole point to the roll and the GREED button.



That system IS in the game. I can't use medium or light armor with my Guardian. I CAN strip those gears of mods if I rolled for it and WON the gear. You're suggesting that we shouldn't be allowed to roll for loot drops when we helped and (in so many cases for the Guardian) defeated the NPC that dropped the loot, enabling you to even get a chance to roll for the loot?

Yeah, good luck with that.....
The OP wasn't talking about using "GREED" (which is of course ok) but rather a guardian choosing "NEED" for medium armor.

My own stance on this issue:

If I'm grouped with a sentinel while playing my DPS guardian I won't roll "NEED" on medium armor. If there's no sentinel in the group I ask the group beforehand if it's ok to need on medium armor for the mods and act accordingly.
My referal link: http://www.swtor.com/r/VwNScj for free stuff including free server transfer & 7 days of subscription

DarknessInLight's Avatar


DarknessInLight
10.21.2012 , 08:55 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Heezdedjim View Post
I don't see the problem with this. In a PUG setting, if the gear matches the primary stat for your class, you should feel free to need it. End of story. Nobody gripes when a Commando and a Vanguard both need on the same piece of aim gear, or a Sage and a Shadow both need on a willpower saber.

What pisses me off is when some cheeky Sentinel hits "need" on the light armor Columi gloves that my Shadow actually DOES NEED, because he "can use it for his pet."
This I understand. The use of NEED vs. GREED shouldn't have to be explained. Having said that, if someone uses Greed for their pet, and they win the item, then you really have no right to complain. They do have a right to roll for the item, but they should NOT be using the Need button when rolling if it isnt for their Toon.
Jedi do not fight for Peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading, as slogans always are. Jedi fight for Civilization, because only Civilization creates Peace. - Jedi Master Mace Windu

Heezdedjim's Avatar


Heezdedjim
10.21.2012 , 09:00 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Kendaric View Post
If I'm grouped with a sentinel while playing my DPS guardian I won't roll "NEED" on medium armor. If there's no sentinel in the group I ask the group beforehand if it's ok to need on medium armor for the mods and act accordingly.
There's nothing wrong with that if it's how you want to roll, but nobody should feel bound by this. As someone pointed out above, the weight split between the two strength classes is an anomaly that other classes in the game don't have to deal with, and it means both guardians and sentinels have only half the odds of even seeing a piece that matches both weight and stat for their class. It's fair for both classes to roll NEED on both weights if they want, because both can wear the stat even if they can't wear the shell.