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Updated Tanking Spreadsheet (TFB HM damage numbers!)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Updated Tanking Spreadsheet (TFB HM damage numbers!)

RanisTheSlayer's Avatar


RanisTheSlayer
10.21.2012 , 05:23 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Clearly you don't know how tanking works...
Even if I didn't, it doesn't matter. If people read your post trying to get legitimate help and they see you telling them to swap gear in the middle of an already overwhelmingly visually stimulating encounter while getting hit by the hardest content in the game, then the real culprit here is you.

Don't patronize people's intelligence because you think you have enough know-how to crunch some numbers instead of being with a group good enough to actually down the content. Player skill will always mean more than these numbers anyway; if you have the skill to get the gear, then what is the difference between 2-5% on a hit for a tank? If that small of a number ACTUALLY matters to your success, the problem is with the people you brought, not the gear on the tank.
Ranis
Lethal Dose Fifty
Jedi Covenant's #1 DPS Sage
Server First 8M and 16M HM Terror From Beyond 5/5

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.21.2012 , 10:40 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by RanisTheSlayer View Post
Don't patronize people's intelligence because you think you have enough know-how to crunch some numbers instead of being with a group good enough to actually down the content. Player skill will always mean more than these numbers anyway; if you have the skill to get the gear, then what is the difference between 2-5% on a hit for a tank? If that small of a number ACTUALLY matters to your success, the problem is with the people you brought, not the gear on the tank.
I wasn't patronizing; I *do* swap gear between phases. Though, tanking him on the lower platforms is an undeniably superior strategy, and gear-swapping would not be a good idea in that case.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

tahoeWolverine's Avatar


tahoeWolverine
10.22.2012 , 09:54 AM | #13
So how exactly are you swapping out your gear? Is this another thing that only stealth classes can do because they can get out of combat?

Thanks for posting this, definitely pretty interesting. I'm a PT tank and have full mitigation...perhaps I should up my health a little.
DrGordon - Chosen - Prophecy of the Five

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.22.2012 , 02:45 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by tahoeWolverine View Post
So how exactly are you swapping out your gear? Is this another thing that only stealth classes can do because they can get out of combat?
Yep, this is a stealth class only thing. I swap gear by dropping combat immediately as we're being pulled up for the second phase. I make sure that my inventory is open going into that phase, so I can just click through a large number of items very quickly.

It's worth noting that I *don't* swap gear between phases anymore, now that we have started tanking TFB on the lower platforms (where mitigation is effective).

Quote: Originally Posted by tahoeWolverine View Post
Thanks for posting this, definitely pretty interesting. I'm a PT tank and have full mitigation...perhaps I should up my health a little.
Well, it's a balance, really. You don't want to go full paper-tank, but I think having more HP than a pure-mitigation tank is probably a good idea. I shoot for around 26k HP fully buffed and stimmed, but that's as a shadow. For a vanguard, I would probably go easily 1k-1.5k lower than that, since vanguards have vastly superior armor and they derive no survivability benefit from extra HP (whereas a shadow improves their self-heal).
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

tahoeWolverine's Avatar


tahoeWolverine
10.22.2012 , 03:41 PM | #15
Ok good points. Do you factor in the parts of the fights where a tank isn't taking direct damage from a boss into your numbers (when another tank has the boss, or on Operator IX where there is no boss)? This could drastically affect boss 1, 3, 4 and 5's damage taken over time numbers if you weren't.
DrGordon - Chosen - Prophecy of the Five

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.22.2012 , 05:07 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by tahoeWolverine View Post
Ok good points. Do you factor in the parts of the fights where a tank isn't taking direct damage from a boss into your numbers (when another tank has the boss, or on Operator IX where there is no boss)? This could drastically affect boss 1, 3, 4 and 5's damage taken over time numbers if you weren't.
I do. My methodology is basically to compute the raw, pre-mitigation damage of a single hit of each ability, then scale that by the number of hits divided by the total time of the fight. Thus, it is a *strictly* normalized model, where all damage is considered smooth and static. This means (among other things) that I really can't accurately measure the value of things like activated relics or cooldowns. The advantage is that mean survivability (which is what I was interested in calculating) is much easier to express.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Shoogli's Avatar


Shoogli
10.23.2012 , 07:21 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by dominius View Post
I'm curious why you would switch out of tank gear for phase 2 of The TFB considering tanking on the bottom platforms makes him use Monsterous Swipe which is a Melee Attack that does Kinetic Damage. As in, it gets the full benefit from all of your tanking stats.
It's funny because I just watched the video I did from our 2nd kill several times (am shadow tank btw) and I take *exactly* the same dmg whether am in a lower platform with his tail kick or in an upper one with his purple spit *and* I have yet to loose a single charge on my kinetic ward, meaning I don't shield any of his attacks : tail kick or purple spit...
The only difference in numbers I get is from the commando healer buff, thus the mitigation I have seems to only be either resistance or armor, or both. 8 man HM btw. I mean I take either 8k or 9k hits depending on the commando healer buff, nothing that looks like a shielded/absorb difference...

Saying this because I remember a video on YouTube with the guy explaining both attacks (upper and lower) are in fact the same in dmg result, just a different animation.

Not saying you're wrong, just saying it's odd because I can't explain why with 1/3 def chance and 2/3 shield chance, roughly, I didn't get to mitigate a single of his attacks, again whether on a lower or upper platform...

If there's something I'm missing, please do tell me...

EDIT : I think I know the answer, by watching your video from your website it seems your tanks are on a platform where they take "arm" attacks, whereas I take a "tail" attack even when on a lower platform, it may well be that only the "arm" attack can be defended against, whereas both the "tail" and "spit" attacks can't ?

Thus it looks like it's not so much a matter of upper vs lower and more of arm vs tail or spit...
Shoogli | Jawa Droid Designer
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.23.2012 , 09:10 AM | #18
The tail whip and the spit are indeed both F/T attacks. The tail whip actually hits harder (by about 2k), but otherwise it's pretty much the same. What you want to do is tank the boss *between* the two platforms where the tentacles spawn on either side. Each tank swap is exactly 35 seconds apart (from Scream to Scream), which means that Slime comes exactly 25 seconds after the swap. You can run a timer for this, but it's pretty easy to time out manually by watching your rotation. When slime is coming, move back to an upper platform. You'll take one or two spits, but the important thing is to drop the slime on the top platform so that you can tank the boss on the lower platform after the next swap.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

alifaraaz's Avatar


alifaraaz
10.23.2012 , 09:36 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
The tail whip and the spit are indeed both F/T attacks. The tail whip actually hits harder (by about 2k), but otherwise it's pretty much the same. What you want to do is tank the boss *between* the two platforms where the tentacles spawn on either side. Each tank swap is exactly 35 seconds apart (from Scream to Scream), which means that Slime comes exactly 25 seconds after the swap. You can run a timer for this, but it's pretty easy to time out manually by watching your rotating. When slime is coming, move back to an upper platform. You'll take one or two spits, but the important thing is to drop the slime on the top platform so that you can tank the boss on the lower platform after the next swap.
Are you certain the arm attacks can by mitigated? I never paid much attention but last night clearing up storymode I noticed I was being hit for 4.5k by both the spit and the normal attack. And yeah I try to do exactly what you suggest with the tanking him on his sides (between the 2 tentacle spawn points) and jumping back a couple of seconds before I 'expect' a spit.

Nice to know the timing, I can plan that a bit better now, but I was taking the same amount of damage on both the upper and lower platform. However this was SM, so maybe it's different in HM. Worth confirming though.
Kazar - Powertech, [Tomb of Freedom Nadd EU]

Shoogli's Avatar


Shoogli
10.23.2012 , 10:12 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
The tail whip and the spit are indeed both F/T attacks.
Thanks for confirming it !

Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
The tail whip actually hits harder (by about 2k), but otherwise it's pretty much the same.
On our second kill yesterday evening, and I've watched the video several times (I was the one frapsing), I'm taking the same amount from the tail and the spit. Only difference sometimes (and I think it's the healer buff dropping once in a while) is less than 1k, and does happen on both tail and spit. On my first phase of being tail-kicked am taking most of the time 8703 hits and a few times 9161 ones (platform 15).

And then on my second phase, when being spitted at (platform 8), I get most of the times hit for 8703 as well, and one time for like 8900ish but it's blurred on the video (red is still a mystery to video he he...), then a sequence of 9300ish with a 9800ish once (platform 8 spit as well but later during the fight) so I can't tell really why there is this difference, maybe the commando healer buff, maybe the sage one, can't tell, but the difference isn't 2k for me, it's around 600-700 at most...
Shoogli | Jawa Droid Designer
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