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An in-depth look at: Lightsaber Forms- Shien/Djem So

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
An in-depth look at: Lightsaber Forms- Shien/Djem So

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.19.2012 , 06:24 PM | #1
"When you ask for trouble, you should not be surprised when it finds you."- Plo Koon, Master of Djem So

We continue our look at Lightsaber Forms with the Djem So and Shien variants of Form V. Cin Drallig continues...

Form V, which has two distinct variations, Shien and Djem So, was developed alongside Form IV, during an era when the Jedi were called upon to more actively maintain the peace in the galaxy, and when purely defensive combat skills-such as those of Form III- were deemed insufficient. Form V focuses on strength and lightsaber attack moves. Form V's Shien variation exploits the ability of a lightsaber to block a blaster bolt, and turns this defensive move into an offensive attack by deflecting the bolt deliberately toward an opponent. Form V's Djem So variation is devoted specifically to lightsaber dueling. A dedication to the power and strength necessary to defeat an opponent characterizes the philosophy of Form V, which some Jedi describe by the maxim "Peace through superior firepower." While porponents of Form V regard it as a worthwhile discipline to prepare a Jedi for any threat, there are others who maintain that Form V fosters an inappropriate focus on dominating others.
You ask for my opinion on Form V? I am neither a proponent nor a detractor. One must question any discipline that has lethal potential. However, if it serves to suppress violent opposition and preserve peace, I believe it is a discipline worth knowing.


We will look at each of these variants.

Shien is an offensive form of Soresu, specifically the blaster deflection aspect. The Form itself is best used against droid opponents (a later thread will discuss why). There really is not much more to say except that Shien is dedicated to offensive blaster deflection.

But Shien is compounded with the Djem So form. The Djem So form focuses on strength with the Lightsaber, characterized by heavy strikes meant to break enemy defenses. Masters of the Djem So form are not only strong with the Lightsaber, but also with their bare hands. This is evident with the Sith Lord Darth Vader's brute strength (combined with his cybernetics), or Jedi Master Plo Koon's mastery of hand-to-hand combat. The Djem So variation was specifically created for Lightsaber combat, alongside Form II.

But the Djem So form has its own weaknesses. Djem So users generally have slow, heavy strikes, which can be avoided by users of Makashi and Ataru. Users of Soresu will block these strikes, which can be a disadvantage. Makashi's emphasis on light footwork can allow the user to dodge the heavy strikes of Djem So. But this isn't always the case, when we see Plo Koon best Ventress in battle even with a broken right arm. But Ataru is a different case. The Ataru form's speed allows the user to avoid Djem So strikes. The speed of Ataru can pick users of Djem So.

Overall, users of Djem So can be very dominating in Lightsaber duels and, as Cin Drallig said, the Form is worth knowing.

Known Masters of Djem So/Shien: Plo Koon, Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader later on)

If you missed Ataru, here it is: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=545380

Next is the balanced Niman Form.

If you have a topic you would like to see in the future, post them here or send me a message.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Preventer-Blaze's Avatar


Preventer-Blaze
10.19.2012 , 06:37 PM | #2
Very nice, for you what form suits best your vision in a "global" effort (Shien/Djem)?
I really tend to choose Djem So between these two, but don't know for sure.

Looking forward for the Form I like most, Niman.

ToEasy's Avatar


ToEasy
10.19.2012 , 06:40 PM | #3
Good job, Djem So is my favorite form, slightly above Vaapad.
"Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. We fight for justice because justice is the fundamental bedrock of civilization: an unjust civilization is built upon sand. It does not long survive a storm." - Mace Windu

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.19.2012 , 06:49 PM | #4
Form V definitely does have a good mix of offense and defense, mainly offense though.

Niman is going to be interesting as there are some generalizations about the Diplomats form that should be cleared up.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.19.2012 , 08:30 PM | #5
Djem So is one of my favorite lightsaber forms. It and Juyo. Good read.

fellblade's Avatar


fellblade
10.19.2012 , 09:02 PM | #6
Another good post -

I think Djem-So is a very good style - one of my favourites and maybe one of the best overall head to head styles....and I really don't think they have quite done it justice in the game
I think some of its weaknesses can actually be overcome by good tactical usage because it is a very mechanically sound style and based on Solid and reliable principles which an intelligent fighter can use to adapt to their foes. as Vader Showed when he became more of a thinking fighter over time...and was effective against all kinds of enemies

While it is an Offensive Style - it actually is capable of very good defense because of it's Soresu Roots. Not quite as good defensively - but it is better at countering and finding gaps than Soresu - if I were to Rate an overall combination of defence and offence and countering - I would probably Give an Edge to Djem So over Soresu
If a Djem So user fights patiently and actually Focuses on Defence it can be a long lasting style - also good observation and timing (with thier countering instinct) and offensive and dominating use of the force will help them throw off an opponents rhythm and overcome styles like Ataru.

Remember, Luke Skywalker who is considered the best Lightsaber duellist of all, is primarily a Shien/Djem So user, which shows that it is a Solid Foundation that can be built upon very effectively.....

Also - Perhaps Cin Drallig should have been more of a proponent of this Style - he may have lived a bit longer vs Vader...
But that situation does give some credence Dooku's theory that Battlemasters tend to be somewhat overrated Duellists....
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.19.2012 , 09:09 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by fellblade View Post
Another good post -

I think Djem-So is a very good style - one of my favourites and maybe one of the best overall head to head styles....and I really don't think they have quite done it justice in the game
I think some of its weaknesses can actually be overcome by good tactical usage because it is a very mechanically sound style and based on Solid and reliable principles which an intelligent fighter can use to adapt to their foes. as Vader Showed when he became more of a thinking fighter over time...and was effective against all kinds of enemies

While it is an Offensive Style - it actually is capable of very good defense because of it's Soresu Roots. Not quite as good defensively - but it is better at countering and finding gaps than Soresu - if I were to Rate an overall combination of defence and offence and countering - I would probably Give an Edge to Djem So over Soresu
If a Djem So user fights patiently and actually Focuses on Defence it can be a long lasting style - also good observation and timing (with thier countering instinct) and offensive and dominating use of the force will help them throw off an opponents rhythm and overcome styles like Ataru.

Remember, Luke Skywalker who is considered the best Lightsaber duellist of all, is primarily a Shien/Djem So user, which shows that it is a Solid Foundation that can be built upon very effectively.....

Also - Perhaps Cin Drallig should have been more of a proponent of this Style - he may have lived a bit longer vs Vader...
But that situation does give some credence Dooku's theory that Battlemasters tend to be somewhat overrated Duellists....
The Form is actually a solid defensive Form, but its primary focus is on attack. The main philosophy is to dominate duels.

Cin Drallig is actually a very skilled duelist, but Vader is far more skilled. Dooku would also be a good match for Cin Drallig as well.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

ToEasy's Avatar


ToEasy
10.19.2012 , 09:15 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by fellblade View Post
Another good post -

I think Djem-So is a very good style - one of my favourites and maybe one of the best overall head to head styles....and I really don't think they have quite done it justice in the game
I think some of its weaknesses can actually be overcome by good tactical usage because it is a very mechanically sound style and based on Solid and reliable principles which an intelligent fighter can use to adapt to their foes. as Vader Showed when he became more of a thinking fighter over time...and was effective against all kinds of enemies

While it is an Offensive Style - it actually is capable of very good defense because of it's Soresu Roots. Not quite as good defensively - but it is better at countering and finding gaps than Soresu - if I were to Rate an overall combination of defence and offence and countering - I would probably Give an Edge to Djem So over Soresu
If a Djem So user fights patiently and actually Focuses on Defence it can be a long lasting style - also good observation and timing (with thier countering instinct) and offensive and dominating use of the force will help them throw off an opponents rhythm and overcome styles like Ataru.

Remember, Luke Skywalker who is considered the best Lightsaber duellist of all, is primarily a Shien/Djem So user, which shows that it is a Solid Foundation that can be built upon very effectively.....

Also - Perhaps Cin Drallig should have been more of a proponent of this Style - he may have lived a bit longer vs Vader...
But that situation does give some credence Dooku's theory that Battlemasters tend to be somewhat overrated Duellists....
Very true though Cin Drallig was a good duelist like Aurbere said. Though I wish Cin Drallig was used more in the expanded universe.
"Jedi do not fight for peace. That's only a slogan, and is as misleading as slogans always are. Jedi fight for civilization, because only civilization creates peace. We fight for justice because justice is the fundamental bedrock of civilization: an unjust civilization is built upon sand. It does not long survive a storm." - Mace Windu

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.19.2012 , 09:20 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by ToEasy View Post
Very true though Cin Drallig was a good duelist like Aurbere said. Though I wish Cin Drallig was used more in the expanded universe.
So do I. He's a really great character and I wish more was done with him. These holocron recordings I have are actually a pretty good look at his character.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.19.2012 , 09:40 PM | #10
I consider Djem-so the "Kendo" Style of star wars. If they had Samauri who were jedi, they would predominately use Form V IMHO.

I honestly would be a user of either Soresu or Djem so/Shien. Also i think they should of made more light saber styles and made Shien and Djem so two different styles, but again that's just my opinion.
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