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Carnage Is Dead


Xerain's Avatar


Xerain
10.20.2012 , 10:01 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by -Yui- View Post
The bubble stun needs to be looked at by Bioware, but calling Carnage dead is exaggerating things. It's tidbit more frustrating in wzs now, but keep in mind sage and sorcs are gimping themselves just to get that stun.

While going Rage may be tempting, the fact of the matter is Combat still offers one of the best bursts in game (and I refuse to play rage out of principle). You can simply adapt to the bubble stun. Purposely break it, then use your normal rotation.

In one on one situations, you should have no problems killing off another Rage specced Mara or Jug. Sweep hits for a measly 3.5k - 4k with aoe dmg reduc, and that's his biggest hitter.
No sage/sorc is gimping themselves to get the bubble. If anything they're improving their skill set with it and the survivability of their whole team with it. 3 second aoe stun is enough time to stop damage on someone and get off a big heal as a sorc. It's far too amazing to not use and it will mitigate far more damage.

Aluvi's Avatar


Aluvi
10.20.2012 , 11:38 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Xerain View Post
No sage/sorc is gimping themselves to get the bubble. If anything they're improving their skill set with it and the survivability of their whole team with it. 3 second aoe stun is enough time to stop damage on someone and get off a big heal as a sorc. It's far too amazing to not use and it will mitigate far more damage.
Dead on with that post sir. You give up roughly 10% healing power and your aoe heal, which to be honest the aoe heal is very force inefficient from what our guild sorc healers tell me, so it is rarely used.

Some of the other benefits include not having to use consumption to get back force. Instead, you get double speed lightning cast that have a chance to proc force regen talent, as well as the ability to cast the spammable lightning spell for regen procs. If you hit a lightning after every couple of heals, you get damn near infinite force, without having to damage yourself via consumption, which gives you better survivability.

The reason, specifically, that this bubble is so good now, is that resolve from multiple stuns does not overlap in 1.4. Now add to this the fact that unlike most stuns which give a certain amount of resolve per second of stun time, these bubble stuns give half the normal amount of resolve for their stun time. They also no longer break on damage. So let's think about this. With an instant cast, you are absorbing ~3.5-4k damage and stunning multiple targets for 3 seconds, or 2 GCD. Good players can easily do 5-6k damage in those 2 GCDs. If you stun 5 people for 3 seconds in a ranked game for instance, while your team is not stunned and dpsing them, you have just saved your team from taking 25-30k damage, plus the amount the bubble absorbed. Plus, instead of damaging yourself to regen force, you get to damage the enemy team! How could a healer NOT play this build?
Aluvian (now Aluvien) Sith Marauder <Infinite Darkness> POT5
Youtube Channel:http://www.youtube.com/kdbutler2
720p Carnage PvP Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/aluviansw

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
10.21.2012 , 08:07 AM | #13
It might be dead for you... but I'm still putting out numbers like this:

http://imageshack.us/f/580/screenshot2012102109013.jpg/

I just did that warzone 2 minutes ago.

ACTroyan's Avatar


ACTroyan
10.21.2012 , 10:36 AM | #14
I have a 50 WH geared mara, jugg and op heals and i would say carnage is FAR from dead... I let the small bump in dps from berzerk go and just hit pred everytime i have fury for it (unless frenzy is not there for emergencies) the speed and defense boost helps out my healers a ton. One of the op healers weaknesses is a lack of knockback and the speed helps create distance. With coordination and some slows you can organize objective switches faster than they can compensate... It has its place, just harder to see without an organized team...
Also if you open with gore>scream, u vet the bulk of your damage in reguardless of cc... If you time you abilities right its really easy to stick to your target, start of with BA for rage massacre for buff if class has a kb wait a few for them to blow it, charge gore scream ravage viscious throw win. Choose targets like you would a concealment up not aoe smasher, or stay back and defend healers. Just pretend your gore scream is a single target smash

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
10.21.2012 , 10:47 AM | #15
Carnage is still what some of the Mara's in my guild use - it works fine in HM EC and HM TfB so it can't be that bad for PvE.
Typhojem Legacy, Jung Ma server
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Frequencyz's Avatar


Frequencyz
10.21.2012 , 05:29 PM | #16
I still stubbornly cling to carnage...but that's only because I have fun in it!! lol. I do much better everything in rage, but it's just so damn boring, I can't stand it...I'd rather gimp myself and continue to enjoy playing the game, then be bored out of my mind while destroying everything

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
10.21.2012 , 05:31 PM | #17
Ranked warzones still require Carnage marauders. No good RWZ team should queue without one.

Believe it or not, Juggernauts are still better for Rage.

Our core group uses 1 Rage Juggernaut, 1 Powertech, 1 Carnage Marauder, 1 Operative Healer, 1 Sorc Healer, 2 Assassins DPS/Tank hybrids and 1 Tank Juggernaut.

Aluvi's Avatar


Aluvi
10.21.2012 , 06:10 PM | #18
I simply feel like carnage is too easy to shut down. It relies so much on being able to get off other abilities after gore, and our server has gotten great at shutting down a mara after he gores. Against people that eat a full ravage or let you get off 3 GCD after gore, sure it will kill them. That may happen once in about 30 engagements for me nowadays in Rateds. Now for normals, I suppose carnage is fine given the average players ability.
Aluvian (now Aluvien) Sith Marauder <Infinite Darkness> POT5
Youtube Channel:http://www.youtube.com/kdbutler2
720p Carnage PvP Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/aluviansw

darthnish's Avatar


darthnish
10.22.2012 , 07:33 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Aluvi View Post
I simply feel like carnage is too easy to shut down. It relies so much on being able to get off other abilities after gore, and our server has gotten great at shutting down a mara after he gores. Against people that eat a full ravage or let you get off 3 GCD after gore, sure it will kill them. That may happen once in about 30 engagements for me nowadays in Rateds. Now for normals, I suppose carnage is fine given the average players ability.

i play carnage exclusively all the other specs bore me tbh, the speed and utility is unmatched as a melee dps, i can respond to nodes immediately and effectively shut down a ball carrier in huttball. It really feels more of a support spec to me. In ranked i find my jugg buddy and wait for him to leap and eat a knock back before i leap and engage so my burst is uninterrupted and at the same time i hold them in place for other dps to burn him down.


tbh this has been happening a hell of a lot lately, i have found a way around it, i leap to them and start a ravage i know it will immediately be shut down with a stun or knock back, after that i do my 2 massacre scream combo with gore , and it still works.

not to mention force camo breaking roots, makes snipers/gs and tele/lightning / hybrid sorc/sages knock backs a joke.I absolutely love being able to immediately pressure a hybrid healer as soon as he wastes his knock back, ALSO, a force scream crit 100% of the time breaks a bubble so to avoid a blind open with a scream and then close in for the kill.

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
10.24.2012 , 02:30 AM | #20
Sounds like someone needs an ego check.

Rage is a one trick pony and is easier to shut down in my opinion, and is better suited for Juggs. Carnage requires a different mindset to play effectively, and more skill than the other two specs. Enjoy your new toy while it lasts...because it won't.