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Are PT Tanks (Shield Tech) Viable in LVL50 PVP??

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Are PT Tanks (Shield Tech) Viable in LVL50 PVP??

Chaoskyx's Avatar


Chaoskyx
10.28.2012 , 07:44 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
Pay no attention to the naysayers, it's perfectly viable for 50 PvP. Yes, you have enough power to cause damage. 300k damage, 200k protection is not uncommon for me. Wearing a full set of Supercommando armor is pointless though, see #3 for the gear I use. PT tank damage is better than Jugg tanks, but still less than Assassin tanks.


You want to be in the thick of things, where all the action is. You have a lot of AoE at your disposal, including an AoE taunt. Run w/ a guild healer and toss guard around to protect your teammates. Be support DPS and help focus down enemies.


I use all Aim augments. I have tank implants, main hand, and offhand. The rest is DPS gear.


31/10/0. Take those 2 points out of Iron Fist in the Pyro tree and put them into Advanced Tools. The shorter cooldown on Grapple is well worth it.
You do actually have a level 50 powertech/vanguard, right? I recall that you used to say that mercenaries were fine and that we all just needed to learn to play even though you never leveled your merc past 34 (or something close to that).

LordExozone's Avatar


LordExozone
10.29.2012 , 05:02 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
No, you don't. You're also lacking:

5% damage debuff (for 15 sec)
Can easily be picked up by AP and is not even stance dependent.

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Ion Cylinder damage proc and movement debuff
The incredible damage of the Ion Cylinder procs I'd hardly call a tool to help defend allies. The snare effect somewhat, but AP has a guaranteed snare on one of their spammable attacks.

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16% armor
Damage mitigation via shields...doesn't affect much in PvP, but it does help
This falls under personal survivability, these are not tools to help defend your allies better. I concede that living a little bit longer means you can protect your allies longer, but only if you are not the last one alive.

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Most likely reduced HP compared to a full spec tank
I must have missed that talent in the ST tree that provides it with a significant HP difference to AP?

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Jet Charge
I forgot about jet charge. Being able to quickly relocate to assist an ally is indeed a good tool.

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Any derp can toss around taunts, so that's a wash. The only benefit you're gaining by switching cylinders is being able to use Guard.
It also adds survivability in the form of a flat damage reduction & an armour increase.

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You'd benefit your team more by not doing it at all and just sticking with DPS. Stance/cylinder dancing isn't very productive for any class.
Who said anything about stance dancing? When I see its advantageous for me to guard a healer instead of providing extra dps, I'll use ion cell for a match. I love this flexibility in the tank classes. Making the best healer on your team twice as survivable can have an incredible effect on the outcome of a warzone, much more than providing 10-20% more dps. Not always of course, it depends on the situation.


Quote:
Don't underestimate survivability. After a zerg by the opposing team, and the dust has settled, I'm always the last one standing. I can withstand focus fire from 3-4 attackers long enough for reinforcements to arrive. I often get "unbeatable" and even "immortal". With even a semi-competent healer at my back, you and your team might as well forget it. You're not going to kill me, ever.
To be fair, any tank class in its tank stance will usually die last, not because of incredible survivability but because the enemy team will focus on healers and then dps first. In addition, pretty much any class backed by a semi-competent healer is neigh-immortal.
While I'm in no way saying ST has less survivability than AP, the 30% damage reduction while stunned (usually when fighting alone vs 4 attackers they will inevitably chain-stun you) + a well timed Hydraulic Overrides means AP too can survive a fair amount of time vs 3-4 attackers to stall for reinforcements. Probably not as well as ST but I doubt the difference will be that big.
Kote! Kandosii sa kar'ta, Vode an.
Mandalore a'den mhi, Vode an. Bal kote, darasuum kote,
Jorso'ran kando a tome. Sa kyr'am nau tracyn kad, Vode an.

BryH's Avatar


BryH
10.31.2012 , 09:14 PM | #13
Been away for a while. Was woundering if there is a ST build that can be used as main HM Ops tank and still be used in pvp? Or do you have to keep switching from pve tank build to pvp tank build?
BraxX :: PT
SQUADRON 11-11-11 *NEVER FORGET*
GhostsoftheFallen
The9thInfantry

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
11.02.2012 , 01:25 AM | #14
Posted this in the PvP forum, but I'll re-post it here: http://imgur.com/Ulzz5

That's nearly 500k damage as a 31/10/0, no stim. Usually I focus more on tossing Guard around for more protection, but since we had 3 healers on our team, I decided to see how much damage I could muster. I've hit 517k as 10/31/0 with Ion Cylinder, but forgot to take a screenie.

The ultimate point I'm trying to make is that PT tanks are perfectly viable in PvP, even in full Shieldtech PvE tanking spec. The key is tweaking your PvP gear to maximize DPS while not giving up too much "tankiness". You can argue semantics and specs all you want. In the end, the damage can be comparable to AP, but with the added benefit of using Guard and more survivability.

Evuo's Avatar


Evuo
11.02.2012 , 01:33 PM | #15
Summarizing what's been said so far in this thread for the OP:

Quote:
1) is a shield tech build viable for pvp (do you actually have enough power to kill someone if you are wearing full Super Commando PVP gear)
No, not with "full" supercommando gear. Your damage is output lacks the ability to put pressure on opponents without a noticeable gain in survivability. Instead, seek to have a mix of dps and tanking gear.

My personal thoughts:
All spec trees are viable, just not as good as others at doing their job. It wouldn't surprise me to see an Arsenal Merc/Gunnery Commando hit upwards of 800k damage in a game similar to the screenshot the poster above me had; and you're probably used to seeing how many complaints there are about that spec being viable. Similar to that spec doing damage versus another, I'd much rather have another tank AC perform the tank role in a warzone if needed. Due to the other two tank ACs having a bigger bag of tricks.

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2) what role do you usually find yourself playing, guarding nodes, guarding healers, running interference while others cap nodes or all of the above
You can guard a node solo and will certainly do better at dealing with attacks while support comes than some specs. However, you'd be better off supporting (debuffing, stunning, attempting to peel for your healer, assisting dps, rotating guard) you teammates in the thick of the action.

My personal thoughts:
This spec is the most dependant team spec in the game. Solo shield tech isn't going to kill 2 people at the East node quickly and cap it. You need to play with somebody, preferably a healer, and stick around them. You can guard a node solo if needed, but I'd prefer someone with stealth and mez capability.

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3) What type of augments do you guys use in your PVP armor, main stat? defense? absorb? endurance? power? or a combo of all of them, should I have more augments of one type over the other?
Aim.

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4) What build do you guys use, is this 31/8/2, seems like a solid build for 50 PVP? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMsbZb.2
Pretty much any spec variation of at least 31 in Shield Tech will work. You can go the full pve cookie cutter tank spec and be fine.

My personal thoughts:
I always at least grab the Neural Overload and No Escape talents in the Shield Tech tree and the Advanced Tools talent in the Advanced Prototype tree. Any slow is better than no slow, and the root on stealth scan plus the pull (cooldown reduced by 10 seconds with Advanced Tools) just makes it that bit more annoying.

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
11.06.2012 , 02:19 PM | #16
That build is all wrong for pvp let me find the pvp build that one site said to use here it is http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#30...oroMZMsrMoZb.2

Maraxuss's Avatar


Maraxuss
11.27.2012 , 10:52 AM | #17
31 Bounty hunter tank in tank gear here. Leveled as shield tank questing/pvp all the way up to 50. My thoughts on the bh shield tech is as follows.

1. Your not going to kill anyone...your not dps. If you want to kill anyone even in recruit gear, play something else. Do damage from your attacks, because you are doing damage, but thats just not your role.

2. Find a healer, guard him and know your guard range, stay in it, fight in it. stick to him like glue.

3. if someone is on your healer, attack them, not the dude in the corner.

4. always be casting your taunts...think of casting your taunts off of cooldown even before an attack.

5. use your jet charge every time its off cooldown, you will get 2 free flamesweeps, and can add a third and not really that big of a heat, you are the node saver....no one caps while you are there.

6. You are very hard to kill, but you will eventually die in a 1 vs 1, so don't do that, if left alone you can guard a node long enough for help to arrive and probably survive. backed by a healer you are nigh unstoppable, as he only has to heal you some...giving team mates most of the heals.

7. Ive had same healer on my bh tank in tank gear, and my dps jugg in dps gear, and there is not even a contest of who will live the longest, bh wins handsdown...and if tank is alive, healer is alive and healing. if your dps and dead, you'll probably meet your healer at the spawn point.

8. I don't believe in stance dancing. I think if your not running the stance that your supposed to be running, your actually a hindrance to the team, because alot of spec abilites require you to be in that stance to work off of. Hate to make a WoW reference but learned along time ago....sure a shadow priest can heal, might even be beneficial at times to do so....but he shouldn't pop out of shadow form to do so, because its more beneficial for him to do his job and dps, which is what he was made for.

9. You have to search yourself and see what you really want. be a tank or be damage, but there is no way to be both. As a tank your not going to get many MvP votes, because no one really cares about the protection stat, so you'll be the unsung hero, because every votes heals first, followed by dps. I can't tell you the number of games where my bh tank got most medals, most protection, and not 1 vote, so if mvp is your thing as well, might want to go dps.

10. There are very few shield techs, so use that to your advantage, 95% of bh are either pyro, or advanced proto, so they are not going to espect you to have a jump, this is killer in huttbal, when you go into the lower levels with ball, jump to someone on the edge, carbonize the whole bunch, and score

11. Playing shield tech tank in pvp seems just more rewarding to me, knowing that by my actions, with my healer we probably aided a very great deal to the teams win, i don't get that feeling on my dps jugg, even though alot of timesi'm first place in medals and get lots of votes...the same feeling is not there.

12. Whatever route you go for tank ot dps, try to make up your mind before you start buying gear, so you don 't have to aquire 2 sets of pvp gear

Most of all just pick what you are going to have fun with, at the end of the day swtor is a game and is about having fun, and thats exactly what you should do.
Vaevictis: Juggernaught 50 Maraxus: Powertech 50 Icebreaker: Commando 50

I Find Your Lack Of Win Disturbing...May The Fail Be With You...

TrumpetNut's Avatar


TrumpetNut
11.28.2012 , 10:24 AM | #18
NOOOO do not listen to them just yet they make sense but I do a hybrid spec go althe way to the knife on dps and tanking spec all the way to the jetpack boost one. It owns ppl bad

Samurro's Avatar


Samurro
11.29.2012 , 04:06 AM | #19
I am a long-time ago Juggernaut player, with decent PvP experience. So I have no clue about Powertechs in PvP, but I can say that it is perfectly fine to play tank specc in PvP! I played my Juggernaut from level 1 to 50 in Immortal specc and achieved Valor Rank 60+ while doing so. I was at the top of the pvp chart most of time. I did change my gear at some point into the game from defensive orientated to offensive for pvp, because people found out that most defensive stats are useless or very poor in PvP.

You must not underestimate the strength of having a tank guarding a healer, this combo can outlast 2vs4+ if played right. And most of warzones I know are not about killing somebody fast, they are about teamplay! The utility a Juggernaut has to neglect the effectiness of other classes was great in the days, have to see how/if that changed.

And I guess that Powertech also has many utility for protecting or helping your own team. Ofc you won't do the big numbers and kill enemies as fast as other classes, but that is not your goal anyway.

This thread inspired me to stick with Shield Tech on my PT till max level, to test the capabilities in PvP and PvE.

PS:
You don't need tank PvE speccs if you are not doing Operation Hardmodes! Get those PvP talents in the tank tree, they are the bread and butter for your specc. And use offensive gear as tank specced (class).
Style > Skill > Stats

Darth Suffocation - Open World PVP

Escherichia's Avatar


Escherichia
12.07.2012 , 11:05 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Maraxuss View Post
stuff ...
agree
Legonella, Power Tech, The Bastion.