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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.11.2014 , 07:55 AM | #7471
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
Just because you failed to comprehend it doesn't mean he failed to prove it. Rift and AoC are both good examples. Thing is, when premades are removed from the regular queues, the regular queues keep popping. It's the premades that have a problem with it, and the premades that suffer. Premades belong in ranked, so I have no problem with that.
What they really need to do is remove the solo button. Maybe then you will learn to MMO.

Vember's Avatar


Vember
09.11.2014 , 08:13 AM | #7472
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
What they really need to do is remove the solo button. Maybe then you will learn to MMO.
You need to learn to business

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
09.11.2014 , 08:26 AM | #7473
This thread always delivers.

The math argument was hilarious. Since apparently only solo players and 4-mans exist. Except I was in a game with 3 two-man groups the other day. So that was a 6-2 lead for premaders with no one in a group of 4. I had a game with 2 three-man groups and a two-man the other day. That was 8-0 for premaders. I saw at least 3 people on the other team with the same guild tag in those games as well, so we were matched against premades as well like the game attempts to do.

At this point, a solo queue argument doesn't even make sense. The game tries to prioritize premades against each other when it can and we keep the queues as populated as possible by having everyone mixed together. For ever BiS trinity 4-man I see, there is a total **** group of 4 players from a guild that do 75k damage in full warzones at 55. I'm not trying to kick either of them out of the queue.

What everyone really wants is a casual vs. competitive queue. Or more realistically, matchmaking based on skill, gear, role, etc. But this is the most unrealistic pipe dream with no X-server or increased server population. You can claim that casual PvPers quit because of premades, but I see them all the time. Not to mention the max premade size is half a warzone. I could see if there were massive amounts of double premades running rampant on servers, but unless you're playing on the most faction-imbalanced server or at like 3 am, this just isn't the case. Not to mention the groups that do this are freakin terrible and regularly lose to 2 or 3-man groups of higher skill.

Clearly BW doesn't see this as an issue and if they had data showing a mass exodus from PvP (which they did, 90% of PvPers quit after 1.2) because of premades, they would make a change. They may not know what PvPers want, but they certainly know what casuals desire and are more than willing to meet those needs if it means more players/more money. Obviously they have plenty of casuals from all areas of the game that enjoy hopping into warzones with their friends/guildies.
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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.11.2014 , 08:27 AM | #7474
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
You need to learn to business
And you need to learn how to play and stop whining about "premades" of 4 people in an 8 man team.

Vember's Avatar


Vember
09.11.2014 , 08:46 AM | #7475
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
And you need to learn how to play and stop whining about "premades" of 4 people in an 8 man team.
Oh c'mon now, don't get upset, don't take my stance personally Besides, the premades are whining more than the casuals, just look at this thread. Some people in this thread are just terrified they won't be able to farm pug queues anymore. Just a guess, but I'd bet the number of pro-premade posters in this thread (and every other thread about premades) outnumber the others by a large factor.

shyroman's Avatar


shyroman
09.11.2014 , 09:05 AM | #7476
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
but I'd bet the number of pro-premade posters in this thread (and every other thread about premades) outnumber the others by a large factor.
That should tell you something about how more people feel then. I know most people don't visit the forums, but of the people that care enough to participate in the forums, if more people are "pro-premade" then the "anti-premade" is the minority and should stop thinking that bioware should cater to what they say, because as you said
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
You need to learn to business
Bioware is a business and should cater to the majority.
Ryann - Sniper | Ryannack - Sorcerer | Apophas - Marauder
Jesicca - Mercenary | Lindseey - Gunslinger
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Vember's Avatar


Vember
09.11.2014 , 09:10 AM | #7477
Quote: Originally Posted by shyroman View Post
That should tell you something about how more people feel then. I know most people don't visit the forums, but of the people that care enough to participate in the forums, if more people are "pro-premade" then the "anti-premade" is the minority and should stop thinking that bioware should cater to what they say, because as you said

Bioware is a business and should cater to the majority.
Its always the same people in these threads. I can promise you, which common sense already does, that casual solo players are the vast majority. So you are absolutely correct.

shyroman's Avatar


shyroman
09.11.2014 , 09:14 AM | #7478
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
Its always the same people in these threads. I can promise you, which common sense already does, that casual solo players are the vast majority. So you are absolutely correct.
right, so people just need to stop complaining about premades and move on.
Ryann - Sniper | Ryannack - Sorcerer | Apophas - Marauder
Jesicca - Mercenary | Lindseey - Gunslinger
Origin - Honey Badgers
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Unperson's Avatar


Unperson
09.11.2014 , 09:14 AM | #7479
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
I bolded the important part.

You are right when you state that they are perceived advantages. Because unlike your comparison, the advantages are available to all.

What is available to 1 player, is available to all players. You can not hold one group accountable if another group decides to not make use of what is available to them.
Ah, but perception shapes our world in the absence of hard data and controlled trials (and even then...). Not to mention that the advantages aren't available to everyone, all the time. I already asked this in a previous post: what happens if I want to queue with my buddies but there are 5 of us? The answer I got was "who cares, it's regs".

If people don't think they will have a fair shot at winning with only skill being the determining factor, they will be less inclined to participate once their conquest/daily is done. Yes, an inordinate amount of skill may offset any advantages brought by voice chat and hand picked compositions. However, assuming players of equal skill, a premade will have an advantage. And the solution cannot be "L2P" because premaders will also L2P and get better with time. You cannot assume that players on either side will be more skilled, but you can prevent uneven starting conditions. Again, perception.


Quote: Originally Posted by PloGreen View Post
So what you want is better matchmaking?

Random is random though. If, for instance you remove groups of 4 from the the unranked queue you are leaving yourself at the hands of rng. This won't make the game fairer you would effectively make grouping up with one friend, casual or pvp groups obsolete in unranked pop. I don't see that as particularly healthy for the game at all.

Half a pre is beneficial to the team of pugs they get put with if it has a balanced comp, so there is a big clue to people that complain about premades ruining their experience. Shock/horror teaming up with people - be it another player or several is a good idea in this game. So I would say to those people do it then. But don't complain about other people if you insist on leaving yourselves to the mercy of random matchmaking. That is just so stupid.

The whole game content encourages people to group - it's an mmo. You are meant to do this, 4 man premades are helpful to pugs as much as they can face roll the opposition. It puts matchmaking in the hands of the players if more people actually chose to do it instead of ************ about it on the forums. Regs serve as a casual playground with no penalty for leaving and rejoining. There is no issue, if people can't win a single warzone they are simply awful and there is no amount of queue adjustment bioware can make to make **** people better at the game. That is down to the player and the choices they make.

If people refuse to use the same tools and options EVERYONE in the game can use what can you say to that? That is their choice. These threads are just ridiculous and nothing will ever change simply because they are so redundant and silly.
Yes, I'd like better matchmaking, though I would settle for *any* matchmaking. And possibly also integrated voice chat. I played DDO for a long time and the VC there worked just fine to coordinate perfect strangers. Bio, Y U NO MAKE VC?!

With better matchmaking I'd be more inclined to respec heal/tank in some of my characters and queue up, much like I do for PVE content. As it stands, I don't really see the point because the composition is completely out of my hands and queue times are exactly the same. No guarantees that having heal/tank preferred (not necessarily reserved) slots would result in balanced comps but it would do away with stupid **** like 4 healers on one side and none on the other in same faction matches.

One step at a time...

shyroman's Avatar


shyroman
09.11.2014 , 09:22 AM | #7480
Quote: Originally Posted by Unperson View Post
If people don't think they will have a fair shot at winning with only skill being the determining factor, they will be less inclined to participate once their conquest/daily is done. Yes, an inordinate amount of skill may offset any advantages brought by voice chat and hand picked compositions. However, assuming players of equal skill, a premade will have an advantage. And the solution cannot be "L2P" because premaders will also L2P and get better with time. You cannot assume that players on either side will be more skilled, but you can prevent uneven starting conditions. Again, perception.
And you also can't assume that premades use voice chat and have perfect comps, some do but not all of them. I've been in premades with some of the best players on my server, and during regs, nobody is talking about the game, they're all talking about random **** that happening in the world. It isn't voice chat or group comp that gives them a large advantage, it's that they're better than others, which is a simple thing to cut down on.
Ryann - Sniper | Ryannack - Sorcerer | Apophas - Marauder
Jesicca - Mercenary | Lindseey - Gunslinger
Origin - Honey Badgers
Jedi Covenant