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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Technohic's Avatar

02.01.2014 , 11:20 PM | #6921
Quote: Originally Posted by Shiala_X View Post
Seriously Bioware. At least forum ban the people that spam nothing but friend referral links.

Dragoon-'s Avatar

02.01.2014 , 11:31 PM | #6922
Quote: Originally Posted by Shiala_X View Post
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Elara Dorne: I'll be ready with any number of regulation-approved punishments when the opportunity arises.
"Everyone fights, Private Ganbar. Either you go in shooting or we freeze you in carbonite and use you as a shield.."

Neoforcer's Avatar

02.02.2014 , 02:09 AM | #6923
Thought i add my to cents When i slisten to this today made me think of this thread
MOG Nation Presents: Real Gamers of Genius Mr. MMO Solo Player Guy

Anyakaschala's Avatar

02.02.2014 , 02:29 AM | #6924
Quote: Originally Posted by xyrmagus View Post
These weren't written up with the intention making things easy for the people already at the top. They are there to curb the horrible imbalance bioware let happen. They are there to make the horribly lopsided factions more tolerable to those on the losing side. For the last week, I have done AT LEAST my 6 daily games a day, usually more like 10. I kept track, I won 3. The WHOLE week. Two were the 4v4 arenas I DIDN'T have to fight a premade (the other being a voidstar). Normally I am either top or second from top on medals (I play a vanguard tank, so it's difficult to get damage medals). A serious portion of these games we are stomped so badly you can't get ANY match objective medals, meaning the vast majority of players can't even get their 8 medals just to get the max WZ comms out of a loss.

If you don't let the republic get a close # of commendations, the terrible, undergeared players will continue to stay undergeared, and be demoralized into either not playing or just doing their daily (and staying terrible, instead of trying and learning). The incentive to win should be in the challenge at this point, or the shame of a premade losing to a pug. Do you really thing a fully aug'd player with 3 others in voice chat has to worry about losing to a random bolstered player with a 20-30% penalty? I don't.

When blizzard was faced with a similar problem, they merged servers or offered free character transfers. There are two problems with this in SWTOR. First, the faction imbalance across ALL servers much more heavily favors the Empire (this is because the empire is just cooler, focus groups should have shown them this and stories and class choices should have been altered accordingly). And second, there is no option to faction xfer, even though the characters are exact mirrors. You can make an arguement about how the class story is not 1:1, but the easy solution is to reset them at the beginning of whatever planet you were on previously (with obvious handling of balmorra vs taris and faction specific planets). They have done none of this, and kinda just let the republic side rot and force PvPers into the empire side (which at this point I'd rather quit given all the work I put into my vanguard).

As is, I haven't seen them do a single thing curb premades OR the faction imbalance in any form (even repub winning Star Fighter, and that's still in early access, now is the PERFECT time to take action)... and that sits OK with you?
Interesting but false. It's really dependent on server. Harbinger, as an example, is very Pub dominant. It didn't used to be, but it is now.

I would also suggest, taking the time to learn the warzones and arenas. Take the time to learn different effective strats that help. Learn from your losses. What is the other team doing, and what aren't you doing? How are they geared? If they are taking advantage of the 46/46/46 weapon/off-hand bolster, then you do the same.

I would add that, myself personally, don't think pre-mades are the problem. I've been on a lot, been against a lot, and it realistically seems that only an extremely small handful are highly coordinated, geared, and in a voice chat system. I been beaten by some, and beaten just as many. Most of the time you can pretty much tell it's just people in a guild rotating thru their toons doing dailies and weeklies.

I would also point out that even if they are, all they are really trying to accomplish is playing together with people that know what they are doing. What strats need to happen in order to win. Not so much different than playing a sport. You throw 11 people together on a football field, and who is the quarterback, who are the linemen, the receivers, and the running backs.

What I would suggest doing is finding people on your faction that enjoy pvp, if you do it week in and week out, you'll see them and their guilds a lot. Get to know them, and maybe friend them, and group with them. Maybe learn a little more about strats and tactics.

Anyakaschala's Avatar

02.02.2014 , 02:36 AM | #6925
Quote: Originally Posted by magi_melcior View Post
Right now the big problem is that there is no incentive for ranked teams to play in ranked. I mean think about it, you can only do Arenas, matches don't count to the daily/weekly, you have long queue times even in the group queue and when you do get a pop you're facing the same guys you've faced 1177 times before.

Most of the premade teams in regular WZs are not there just for a free PuG stomping. They are there because they want to play 8v8, want to get their daily/weekly done, don;t want to wait 30mins between WZs and don't want to keep facing the same 2 or 3 teams all the time (because it gets boring very quickly).

Simply banning all groups from the regular queue is NOT the answer as it will hurt those non-premade groups that simply want to play together socially. Also it will not stop that small number of premades that like to bully PuG (I never said they didn't exists) who will simply queue sync in the solo queues and still get there group into WZs.

The answer is to give the ranked teams a reason to play ranked again as right now the only thing they really get from it is a position on the leader-board. I think you could do this with the following changes to the PvP structure:
  • Return 8v8 to ranked queues
  • Maximum group size in ranked queue is 4, so for an 8v8 it will be 2x4man vs 2x4man
  • Introduce a Ranked Daily and Weekly (gives ranked comms)
  • New "Elite Valor" rating only available from playing ranked, with its own Titles. This could then be used like a reputation system allowing the purchase of unique (non performance enhancing) items from a new vendor (Unique Saber Crystals, weapons, adaptive armour, mounts pets ect). Give ranked players something to spend their comms on once they are fully geared.
  • Increase the amount for credits awarded for completing the Daily/Weekly missions at all PvP levels, doing PvP dailies should be a viable alternative to running Black Hole or Section X
  • Halve the number of ranked comms given by the regular Daily/weekly missions (but increase the number of reg comms).
  • Remove the cap on WZ comms once a player hits 55 but not before.
  • Remove the ability to buy rankled comms with regular comms. But add the ability to trade comms for Classic and Basic comms instead.
  • Remove Bolster from ranked PvP, only those with full PvP gear should be entering
  • Allow players to queue for both ground WZs and GSF at the same time
  • Introduce an in-game voice chat client for WZs and Ops

Giving players more rewards for doing ranked will lure teams back, especially if they get to play 8v8 again, as will giving them unique (and cool) titles and cosmetic items, people do like to show off after all
Reducing and limiting the number of ranked comms they can get from regular WZs will also push gear grinders back into ranked.
Removing Bolster from ranked will hopefully mean less undergeared bads trying ranked as their PvE gear will be destroyed due to the lack of Expertise.
Introducing an in-game VOIP system will give PuG the choice to remove one of the premades big advantages, if PuGs choose not to use it then it is there own fault.

However even if most ranked teams leave the regular queues there will still be some bullies left, but they will not be able to hide in amongst the decent ranked teams that are just in the regular queues because they is no reason to play in ranked. And since the bullies can no longer hide it will be far easier to call them out and do something about them.
I agree with most of this. I would also suggest that maybe there should be 2 versions of unranked pre-mades as well. One that is exclusively only solo queues, and one that is better rewards but can queue as a group. As an incentive, maybe something like 10/1 to comm/ranked comms. Thus making the grind to 67 gear a little easier.

I also agree that bolster should not be allowed in ranked matches. Hell, if they change the to the system I suggest with pre-made unranked, I'd suggest taking bolster away from that, or from 55 altogether. If they do take bolster away however, their should be something like partisan gear available to buy with creds from a vendor.

I would also agree with the suggestion of removing the cap from comms to someone with full valor, or raise the cap as you hit certain valor levels. It gives people in full incentive to play. Add that in terms of ranked team ratings, there should be a system in place that rewards success and level. Meaning cool gear skins, mounts, and titles. Something that says you earned your status as a good pvper.

I would also suggest some extremely cool rewards that are ranked comms purchasable. Thus a reason for people with ranked comms to burn to continue to pvp. And as thus if you remove the cap, something that could cost say 10,000-20,000 ranked comms. Let's face it, someone pretty dedicated can easily get 3k ranked comms in 1 week pugging. Thus an incentive to work at it.

t-darko's Avatar

02.02.2014 , 08:36 AM | #6926
Some might consider this a change of opinion, but, as long as we only got one Q for WZ's we need to live with the fact of stomping premades. I still think that arguing for this situation to remain, is to argue for the right to PugStomp. But, we can't argue for a situation that hinders people to enjoy the game together, whether these players are Good or Bad.

In this thread we got the real hardcore ones, those with the mathematical insight and know how to make the best of their gameplay. We got those who study, train and adjust the skilltrees to their style of play. You got those who in the sheer prospect of competing against live players just love PvP. You got those who just endure, with the max legacy percs, and just Power level. And the list could go on...

But one fact remain; with the removal of 8 vs 8 ranked, and the entry of 4 vs 4 death matches as Ranked, still there is very few players that enters Ranked. The change from Ranked WZ's to Ranked Death matches is a major change and a effort to match the majority of player preferences and style. But still only a few show up in ranked.

Then only one queastion remains where are all the players? And why are they there?

Zoom_VI's Avatar

02.02.2014 , 09:16 AM | #6927
Quote: Originally Posted by Shiala_X View Post
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Seriously?! this thread was necro'ed by a referral link spammer?!

Sanity is for the weak minded.

MotorCityMan's Avatar

02.02.2014 , 11:17 AM | #6928
Quote: Originally Posted by Shiala_X View Post
max credits [url].......(spam referral link)...

Make sure you add Shiala_X to your ignore list.

SilverWF's Avatar

02.04.2014 , 02:46 AM | #6929
Damn spammers!

NamelessMerc's Avatar

03.02.2014 , 03:02 AM | #6930
O.P I'm sorry but this issue will likely never change.

There will always be scrubs who run in pre-mades because they can't cut it solo and feel they have to win. There will always be victims of pre-mades and the egomaniacs who roll in them and there will always be those same scrubs screaming about why it's important that they keep winning and thus why the game must have pre-mades.

If you can't handle the unskilled scrubs and their pre-mades then change servers. Oh wait, they're on every server. Well then I guess you're buggered and there's nothing you can do about it. Quit the game I guess.

There's zero point to complaining about it to the administrators, who will not listen to you, because they couldn't care less about whether or not you enjoy the game so long as they're profiting from it. They're the people you should probably be the most upset with as they've allowed the scrubs to roll in their pre-mades for this long.

At the end of the day I hope you find satisfaction in understanding the same thing that I do. Every time you get killed by a pre-made simply remember they're doing it because they know, as you should, that they haven't a hope in hell of taking you out on their own.

The alpha male hunts alone and enjoys the spoils of its kills without need to share because he took down the prey alone.

Smaller/weaker scavengers hunt in packs.

In short O.P, if you come across a pre-made just leave the match and get out of the war zone rotation they're in or switch to a character in another war zone bracket.