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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Angellis's Avatar


Angellis
10.30.2013 , 10:28 AM | #6151
Quote: Originally Posted by General_Aldo View Post
When people say that premades only win because they got TS and good class roles (2 dps, 1 tank, 1 heal), they assume that the pug was at even individual skill to begin with. This is never the case. Since 90% of pugs are terrible, and will lose regardless if good players are on TS together or have good class roles.
This.

/5char

DainjaMouz's Avatar


DainjaMouz
10.30.2013 , 11:18 AM | #6152
Quote: Originally Posted by Exly View Post
I remember when it used to be that way, but not any more. Queue times are ok at peak, but off peak they are getting longer and longer. And no, I do not have a screen shot to prove it, but I am now even seeing messages in general chat asking why there are no queue pops.

Edit: The other thing that I am seeing now that I did not see in the past is that it seems like at least half of the warzones that I queue for are now training exercises instead of faction against faction. I don't know why this is happening, but on thing that makes sense to me is that people are letting premades squash their desire to queue.
Different server? I'll stand my my observation. Example: yesterday during peak server hours, I was done with my six (6) dailies in less than 90 minutes, two of which were full-length Huttball.

Like you, I have noticed that most of my WZs are Imp v. Imp. these days. Maybe Pubs are more likely to flee from the premade scourge. Perhaps Imps are willing to take the occasional beatdown because we understand that if it doesn't kill us, it makes us stronger.
The PvP Fringe @ Jedi Covenant
Ashes of Ashla Andrrikan - lvl 55 MM | Ultetharu - lvl 14 Merc
Dainjamous - lvl 36 Sentinel
"Less frou frou, more pew pew!"

Exly's Avatar


Exly
10.30.2013 , 12:20 PM | #6153
Quote: Originally Posted by DainjaMouz View Post
Different server? I'll stand my my observation. Example: yesterday during peak server hours, I was done with my six (6) dailies in less than 90 minutes, two of which were full-length Huttball.

Like you, I have noticed that most of my WZs are Imp v. Imp. these days. Maybe Pubs are more likely to flee from the premade scourge. Perhaps Imps are willing to take the occasional beatdown because we understand that if it doesn't kill us, it makes us stronger.
So you have seen al lot of same faction warzones too, and you are even willing to admit that some player's may not queue because they don't want to get pugstomped. Also, maybe the Imp. player's are staying because they have a chance of having a premade on their side, and they are willing to take the chance and then leave mid warzone if things aren't going their way.

DainjaMouz's Avatar


DainjaMouz
10.30.2013 , 01:11 PM | #6154
Quote: Originally Posted by Exly View Post
So you have seen al lot of same faction warzones too, and you are even willing to admit that some player's may not queue because they don't want to get pugstomped. Also, maybe the Imp. player's are staying because they have a chance of having a premade on their side, and they are willing to take the chance and then leave mid warzone if things aren't going their way.
Hmmmm...what was it I said? Oh, maybe it was this:
Quote: Originally Posted by DainjaMouz
I say this as a player who still gets his **** handed to him on a regular basis, based on the luck of the draw. I've also handed out a lot of **** based on the luck of the draw. What I DON'T do is complain about premades. What I do instead is to take a look at the toons on the other team and think to myself "next time my queue hits with a couple of those guys on my side, we're going to rock".
No, wait. That wasn't it. Maybe it was this:
Quote: Originally Posted by DainjaMouz
I'm not contesting anyone's point that a group of players that practices consistently together and uses voicecomm is going to have an advantage. I'm surprised that the research you reference didn't win an Ig Nobel Prize. Thanks, Captain Obvious!
Oh, now I remember. It was this:
Quote: Originally Posted by DainjaMouz
...the only other logical explanation is that the <premade> complainers want the same incentives as players who put effort into coordinated gameplay, but they don't want to be bothered to actually put effort into coordination. It's like a soccer league for preschoolers: you can't keep score, and everyone gets a trophy. I hear WoW offers this sort of gameplay.
My memory is foggy, but I might have said this as well:
Quote: Originally Posted by DainjaMouz
A disclaimer: as I've said before, I don't think SWTOR has a significant premade problem. Every MMO has its unique set of issues, and people end up choosing the ones they can live with. I would be concerned with any system-based solution, because it would end up penalizing players simply interested in playing a wz with friends. While the current system isn't perfect, it's working for a significant majority of players.
FYI...I'm making this paragraph up right now, as I type. Although it may feel like the Star Wars universe is against you, landing on a side that is exceptionally overmatched (for whatever reason) happens to ALL OF US. Anyone who says otherwise is lying, and is not a smart liar either. As I see it, you can do one of two things. You can either bail on the WZ (dropping or hiding in a corner to collect your daily tickmark), leaving everyone else in the lurch; or, you take the opportunity to actually figure out how to play your class. Contrary to popular belief, snipers aren't a great defensive class and it takes some effort to prolong your existence. Some of my best work learning to defend has been done getting while getting pounded on by a better team.
The PvP Fringe @ Jedi Covenant
Ashes of Ashla Andrrikan - lvl 55 MM | Ultetharu - lvl 14 Merc
Dainjamous - lvl 36 Sentinel
"Less frou frou, more pew pew!"

DainjaMouz's Avatar


DainjaMouz
10.30.2013 , 01:21 PM | #6155
Quote: Originally Posted by Exly View Post
So you have seen al lot of same faction warzones too, and you are even willing to admit that some player's may not queue because they don't want to get pugstomped. Also, maybe the Imp. player's are staying because they have a chance of having a premade on their side, and they are willing to take the chance and then leave mid warzone if things aren't going their way.
One other thing: I said "Pubs" are fleeing the premade scourge, not "pugs". I don't have a huge concern with Pub flight, because Imp v. Imp generally makes for a more competitive, interesting WZ anyway. And yes, I did go there
The PvP Fringe @ Jedi Covenant
Ashes of Ashla Andrrikan - lvl 55 MM | Ultetharu - lvl 14 Merc
Dainjamous - lvl 36 Sentinel
"Less frou frou, more pew pew!"

Exly's Avatar


Exly
10.30.2013 , 01:49 PM | #6156
Quote: Originally Posted by DainjaMouz View Post
One other thing: I said "Pubs" are fleeing the premade scourge, not "pugs". I don't have a huge concern with Pub flight, because Imp v. Imp generally makes for a more competitive, interesting WZ anyway. And yes, I did go there
Well, the last time that I checked Pubs are people too. So when I said "some people" are not queueing that is what I meant. And since my server is Pub dominated, and the one's not queueing are Imps, my decision was to say "some people" instead of saying Pubs or Imps or even pugs. And the fact that you don't have a concern about Pub flight makes me think that you agree with me when I say that people are choosing not to play, and you are ok with that. Unfortunately though, If enough people choose not to play, then there will be nobody left to play, and PvP will end up as dead as Ranked 8v8's were before they were removed from the game. Since I do not want that to happen, I do have a problem with people choosing not to queue because premades are ruining their experience, and I will continue to voice my opinion on the matter until either BioWare fixes the problem, or I decide to quit the game and do something else with my time.

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
10.30.2013 , 02:09 PM | #6157
Quote: Originally Posted by Exly View Post
Why are you surprised?
I'm surprised because of how long the same toons are doing premade unranked. Easily over a year of pugstomping with the same premade. I'm surprised that they are still entertained is all.
Quote: Originally Posted by Gaudrath View Post
What I don't understand is - how is it possible that if I queue for unranked solo warzones, I get dumped into a warzone with a frikkin' premade on the other end?
My guess would be because of one of the following:
1) Group ranked isnt active so they sit in the queue for too long and end up just quad queuing for solo
2) They only have 2 or 3 people and do solo queue at the same time.

I find that when I do solo queue for an hour or two, the majority of matches have at least a few of the same allies and enemies. This makes me realize that no one else is queuing, and any 3 or 4 man premade could easily get the same arena.
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS

Exly's Avatar


Exly
10.30.2013 , 03:27 PM | #6158
Quote: Originally Posted by DainjaMouz View Post
Hmmmm...what was it I said? Oh, maybe it was this:


No, wait. That wasn't it. Maybe it was this:


Oh, now I remember. It was this:


My memory is foggy, but I might have said this as well:


FYI...I'm making this paragraph up right now, as I type. Although it may feel like the Star Wars universe is against you, landing on a side that is exceptionally overmatched (for whatever reason) happens to ALL OF US. Anyone who says otherwise is lying, and is not a smart liar either. As I see it, you can do one of two things. You can either bail on the WZ (dropping or hiding in a corner to collect your daily tickmark), leaving everyone else in the lurch; or, you take the opportunity to actually figure out how to play your class. Contrary to popular belief, snipers aren't a great defensive class and it takes some effort to prolong your existence. Some of my best work learning to defend has been done getting while getting pounded on by a better team.
Fyi I just did my dailies on my balance sage. I won 2 out of five matches, I got a total of 5 mpv votes, topped the teams damage list in two warzones, and topped damage and healing in one arena beating out sage healer that did zero damage. And even though I lost 3 of 5, I still had fun because they were pure pug on pug matches, and in each case the team that played best won. So, even though I know that I am far from the best player out there, I also know that not all pugs are bad, and that having a separate queue would serve to enable more people to experience the type of fun play that I just did instead of having to be disheartened by having to face premades that seem to enjoy their pug stomping ways just a little too much.

Domatron's Avatar


Domatron
10.30.2013 , 04:20 PM | #6159
Quote: Originally Posted by Exly View Post
Fyi I still had fun because they were pure pug on pug matches
How could you know this? I queue with people from other guilds all the time, in fact one of the best premades I've been in recently had people from 4 different guilds.

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
10.30.2013 , 06:42 PM | #6160
Quote: Originally Posted by General_Aldo View Post
People think they have the same skill level as those who premade.

So then they believe that because of their coordination and voice communication, that's where the loss comes from.

If pugs and premades had the same overall individual skill level, I could defiantly see your point. However, the individual skill levels are not the same. Therefore, you can't blame the loss on coordination.

Coordination is important in warzones for sure, but in regular warzones, it isn't a large contributing factor like it is in ranked. Individual skill is the largest contributing factor for a win. (This applies to the team as a whole)
This. If you lose a ton, it has more to do with you than it does with what the other team is doing.
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