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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Veniras's Avatar


Veniras
10.17.2012 , 09:29 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashaari
Any logical theories for this ...
I ASSUME it's to prevent long queue times. And that once F2P comes they will seperate the queues. *crosses fingers*

Ssfbistimg's Avatar


Ssfbistimg
10.17.2012 , 09:44 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
Here are some personal statistics over the past 3 days from solo pvp'ing on the Republic side of the Progenitor server. I used Recruit gear only at the start to see the incentive a new player will have. To see if he will keep playing pvp:

Played 38 matches over the course of 3 days:

Won: 4. Lost: 34.
Number of times queued against a premade (3 or 4 people from the same guild): 23
Number of times queued with a premade (3 or 4 people from the same guild): 2
Number of times lost against the Republic: 0
Number of times lost against the Empire: 34
Number of times won against the Republic: 4
Number of times won against the Empire: 0
Number of times grouped without a healer: 17
Number of times faced an enemy group without a healer: 1
Number of times faced an exceptional enemy group (4 or more players with War Hero title or above): 10
Number of times queued with an exceptional group (4 or more players with War Hero or above): 1
Number of times queued with an inadequate group (4 or more players in Recruit): 10
Number of deaths: stopped counting.

As you can see from this limited survery, queuing solo meant losing the overwhelming majority of the games (a ratio of 4-34), almost all of them against the Empire. I've been in 4 true PuGvsPuG matches and incidentally every single one of them was Rep vs Rep we won.

23 times ouf of 38 (all in Rep vs Imp) we faced three or more players from the same guild. On my team this happened twice but we lost those matches as well due to the fact that:

10 times out of 38 we had 4 or more people (!!!) in Recruit gear (myself included of course), whereas 10 out of 38 times we faced enemy groups where 4 or more people were sporting War Hero, Conqueror, Warlord etc. titles.

This was further compounded by the fact that 17 (!) out of 38 times our team did not have a healer. Only once was I in a match where I could not find an enemy healer to mark.

I did not exactly count how many times our group was utterly annihilated (0-6 huttball, 100-0% novare etc.) but there were a lot of instances where we could not hold a single node in Civil War. Coordination was ok, we always discussed tactics, 9 out of 10 times people called out inc but the general lack of healers AND the overall gear advantage enjoyed by the enemies AND the fact that 23 matches had 3 or 4 people from the same guild made sure that no amount of coordination would make a difference.

Look at the numbers and tell me why a new lvl50 would bother to play pvp again after this?
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Facing premades more than half the time (23/38) was part of the reason we kept losing but not the only part. The drastic lack of healers wasn't helping either. And the fact that in almost every 3rd match or so we had 4 people in Recruit.

I haven't tried pvp as an Imperial yet. I'm curious to do some statistics when I hit 50 to see if it's easier to level up somewhat as an Imperial.

I've seen many opinions by many people (some say it's fine, the majority call for changes) but I think there is something very wrong with pvp if solo queuing means autoloss.
I played 40 matches as a pug last 3 days i played. won 32 lost 8.
so what was your point. I pugged all 40 matches. went up against premades atleast in 20 matches. I dont pay attention for this as I don't care who I play. only care about winning.

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
10.17.2012 , 09:51 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
So what I take from this is I am a terrible player and a coward because we can never get our pvpers online at a time to run what little ranked queues that are going on (they do happen you just need to coordinated with other teams to see they are running). When ranks do happen you face the same team over and over again and that gets old fast. Also ranked warzones can be as bad in terms of imbalance as non ranked, what do you think happens when someone is starting a pug group and saying "anyone can join gear and class does not mattar", well what usually happens is the pug faces a stomping but hey at least its ranked.

You make it sound like the players who are not running ranked (most want to not all of them can) enjoy stomping the crap out of players in recruit gear, which I don't. I love a good close matchup, the warzones that come down to the wire 1-2 or 5-6 huttballs, 10%-0% NC, 20 point wins in CW, VS where no one gets the doors or it becomes a race to see who got what down faster.

I cannot deny that there are players who enjoy beating on recruit gear players but don't label all WH geared players in one group...that's being narrow minded and makes you look like an idiot.

This threads title is all about premades but for some reason a lot of it comes back to a gear thing. Is there a gap in gear...yes, but unless you have never PvPed you should not be hitting 50 and go "oh I have never done a warzone before but I really want give it a shot ill buy some recruit gear and have some fun". With an exception to you not having any player interaction at all over the course of your leveling you should have some concept of gear and what that means at any endgame type activities whether that be PvE or PvP.

You should be ready with comms so you can get some WH and BM right away fill the gap with recruit, maybe do some operations or HM flashpoints to boos your HP and stats.

This is an MMO, Its almost like they want you to meet people and enjoy the game with you. There is a solo aspect to this game but how can you blame someone for wanted to group up with a guild or friends to take part in PvP. I know I am just blowing smoke but these type of posts make my head scratch. There is nothing stopping anyone from joining a guild or grouping with friends.

They should just give everyone a set of WH when they hit 50 and be done with it...when this happens I will be waiting on pins and needles as to what will be the next big complaint.
So first you admit you can't get enough PvP friends for ranked warzones and then you defend your rolling pugs by the statement it's a MMO and you should get friends to PvP with in unranked. It seems to me you are just making excuses to why your 4-man premade is rolling pugs in unranked warzones.

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
10.17.2012 , 10:00 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
Facing premades more than half the time (23/38) was part of the reason we kept losing but not the only part. The drastic lack of healers wasn't helping either. And the fact that in almost every 3rd match or so we had 4 people in Recruit.

I haven't tried pvp as an Imperial yet. I'm curious to do some statistics when I hit 50 to see if it's easier to level up somewhat as an Imperial.

I've seen many opinions by many people (some say it's fine, the majority call for changes) but I think there is something very wrong with pvp if solo queuing means autoloss.
This is something I noticed while doing level 50 warzones a few months back on my gunslinger. I rarely had any premades on my team while almost always facing at least one 4-man premade. There seems to be something wrong with the matching algorithm since it prefers matching pugs against premades. But I guess we can remove warzones once the game goes F2P. The premades will make sure no F2P player testing PvP ever is going to get a subscription or buy PvP passes. Bioware will merge all remaining PvP servers into PvE servers within a year since warzone pops will be twice a week, the same rate my previous server had before the transfer.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.17.2012 , 10:08 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Theodulus View Post
So first you admit you can't get enough PvP friends for ranked warzones and then you defend your rolling pugs by the statement it's a MMO and you should get friends to PvP with in unranked. It seems to me you are just making excuses to why your 4-man premade is rolling pugs in unranked warzones.
Well when we do get enough for ranked its later at night and that does not work to well for me but thats my own fault I guess that and no one wants a dps assassin in their group but again my own fault unless I join a pug group but I covered that in my post unless you did not really read it.

I also stated I do not enjoy rolling pugs and even when we do it does not happen all that often...maybe once every 4 games if that (usually good competition on my server). Its amazing how when stated I get no joy out of crushing players in recruit gear that you state I defend my "rolling pugs" which I never once said. I also never said anything about running a 4 man premade group, again pulling things out of the air, if I do group its usually just me and our guilds PvP leader and he is trying to gear an alt.

These forums never seas to amaze me.

RAVM's Avatar


RAVM
10.17.2012 , 10:09 AM | #56
There should be reduced commendations for premades when they get matched against PUGs.

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
10.17.2012 , 10:18 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
Well when we do get enough for ranked its later at night and that does not work to well for me but thats my own fault I guess that and no one wants a dps assassin in their group but again my own fault unless I join a pug group but I covered that in my post unless you did not really read it.

I also stated I do not enjoy rolling pugs and even when we do it does not happen all that often...maybe once every 4 games if that (usually good competition on my server). Its amazing how when stated I get no joy out of crushing players in recruit gear that you state I defend my "rolling pugs" which I never once said. I also never said anything about running a 4 man premade group, again pulling things out of the air, if I do group its usually just me and our guilds PvP leader and he is trying to gear an alt.

These forums never seas to amaze me.
I'm just tired of the so called war heroes defending their right to make people stop queuing for normal warzones by premading so I assumed you were one of them. Mostly because of the not enough people online to do RWZ and queue times are too long for RWZ arguments. Well it seems I made hasty conclusions and for that I apologize.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.17.2012 , 10:20 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Theodulus View Post
I'm just tired of the so called war heroes defending their right to make people stop queuing for normal warzones by premading so I assumed you were one of them. Mostly because of the not enough people online to do RWZ and queue times are too long for RWZ arguments. Well it seems I made hasty conclusions and for that I apologize.
Don't worry I am talking to the PvP leader as we speak about getting serious about ranked again.

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
10.17.2012 , 10:24 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by RAVM View Post
There should be reduced commendations for premades when they get matched against PUGs.
Or just add a damage dealt, healing received and damage resisted debuff to people premading against pugs. Or combine the two suggestions. That should allow for some interesting warzones and it would be an incentive to do RWZ instead. Ranked comms doesn't seem to be a good enough incentive for doing RWZ so a debuff would certainly be motivation enough to do RWZ.

Lunacriss's Avatar


Lunacriss
10.17.2012 , 10:45 AM | #60
This is definitely a L2P issue