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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
07.20.2013 , 11:49 PM | #5171
Only thing this thread has proven is how bad the players in general have become.

Not talking about skill, talking about true PvP types who honestly are fine with the system.

Seriously so sad this crap gets this much attention.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
07.21.2013 , 12:05 AM | #5172
Quote: Originally Posted by SajPl View Post
Give them the damn solo que already. I mean place tcem in a warzone where they are completly ALONE, no teammates and no enemies and then they can be best being 50k damage horrorshows and have a 100% win ratio. This thread is a joke being kept up by 3-4 people who instead of actually going into pvp and learning their class go and moan here all day and then wnder why they loose. Well you loose because youre team is down to 7 because you are nothing but a burden.
the opponents are as loud and few in number as the proponents. just sayin'
meh
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Vaerah's Avatar


Vaerah
07.21.2013 , 01:44 AM | #5173
Please excuse me if I interrupt the swinging and name calling for a second, with an actual proposal for matchmaking criteria.

It's fairly simple (= easy to implement) and effective once the statistics start to "bubble up".

1) At each match end, the tally of a player wins / losses is updated. A very simple algorythm is used, that is, if the team wins he gets a +1, else a -1 (if he quits, 0). This disregards the individual player skill, gear etc, but it's not meant to do that. It just takes into account the *background situation* that led the player to win or lose. Of course soloers / puggers / undergeared players will tend to lose more than win so their tally is going to be lower than someone with full gear or that groups a lot. This value is divided by total lifetime matches played, so in the end we have a value ranging from zero to 1.

2) At each match end, an additional counter saves the potition on the scoreboard of the player vs his other faction members. A guy frequently losing but always coming at the top of his team (and dragging it somewhat) will tend to get higher in the scoreboard for his faction. That number is stored and is then averaged with the total player position saved grand average for all his matches. This will produce another number from 0 to 1 and it reflects (in a simplicistic yet faithful way) the player performance.

Come next match queue, those numbers are put together as follows:

Matchmaking_Rank = Total lifetime games lost / won (0...1) * (Total lifetime average performance (0...1) * Weight_Coefficient.

The Weight_Coefficient is an hard coded value (left to BW at discretion) that "rescales" the effect of personal performance over the total wins / losses and allows player performance to be more or less predominant in the matchmaking rank.


Now please feel free to resume the flames and whatever.

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
07.21.2013 , 02:30 AM | #5174
Quote: Originally Posted by Pistols View Post
Only thing this thread has proven is how bad the players in general have become.

Not talking about skill, talking about true PvP types who honestly are fine with the system.

Seriously so sad this crap gets this much attention.
Pistols, imo, true pvp types should not be fine with the current system. True pvp types should want matches to be as even as possible and win because their team is the best of the best.

Currently if someone premades frequently and is fine with the system as is then I would consider them to be farther from the "true pvp type" than the noobiest of the solo q ragers in this thread.

Decent premades have huge advantages against pugs and decent premaders both understand this and should want to fight other decent premaders whenever possible. So true pvp types should want matchmaking more than anyone.

When I see people saying that premades don't have major advantages then I know they are either fooling themselves or they are bad players. Because as someone who used to spend a lot of time putting premades together in other games I know we have major advantages. A great premade should be able to carry a lot of scrubs and in swtor you only have to carry 4.

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
07.21.2013 , 02:35 AM | #5175
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaerah View Post
Please excuse me if I interrupt the swinging and name calling for a second, with an actual proposal for matchmaking criteria.

It's fairly simple (= easy to implement) and effective once the statistics start to "bubble up".

1) At each match end, the tally of a player wins / losses is updated. A very simple algorythm is used, that is, if the team wins he gets a +1, else a -1 (if he quits, 0). This disregards the individual player skill, gear etc, but it's not meant to do that. It just takes into account the *background situation* that led the player to win or lose. Of course soloers / puggers / undergeared players will tend to lose more than win so their tally is going to be lower than someone with full gear or that groups a lot. This value is divided by total lifetime matches played, so in the end we have a value ranging from zero to 1.

2) At each match end, an additional counter saves the potition on the scoreboard of the player vs his other faction members. A guy frequently losing but always coming at the top of his team (and dragging it somewhat) will tend to get higher in the scoreboard for his faction. That number is stored and is then averaged with the total player position saved grand average for all his matches. This will produce another number from 0 to 1 and it reflects (in a simplicistic yet faithful way) the player performance.

Come next match queue, those numbers are put together as follows:

Matchmaking_Rank = Total lifetime games lost / won (0...1) * (Total lifetime average performance (0...1) * Weight_Coefficient.

The Weight_Coefficient is an hard coded value (left to BW at discretion) that "rescales" the effect of personal performance over the total wins / losses and allows player performance to be more or less predominant in the matchmaking rank.


Now please feel free to resume the flames and whatever.
the performance is a rather inaccurate way of determining the strength of the person relative to the team, mostly due to the fact that it varies too much by role if going by medals(tanks and people that respec between 2 roles will be overvalued) and if it goes by pure numbers, people who tab dot or throw aoe everywhere will be overvalued. A stealth cap that wins the game will have almost no value, defenders undervalued.


and the way your equation is, the weight doesn't actually weight, you would want,
Matchmaking_Rank = Total lifetime games lost / won (0...1) + (Total lifetime average performance (0...1) * Weight_Coefficient.

I'd think it would be better to assign each person a rank(say starting at 1000), and the teams rank be the average of the individual ranks. When winning, you would be (enemy/friendly)*20, and if losing you would get (friendly/enemy)*-20. (20 was just a generic number.) Ex, your team rank is 1200, opponent is 1000, you would get 17 points for winning, and -24 points for losing, reflecting how you should win based on team rank. If you do good relative to your team, that usually means your team has low ranking, and you will not lose as much because of it, taking the place of your performance stat.

When grouping, it would ideally wait for 32 people. Take the side with highest average for the first 8, put the top 4 for that group in. Then put 8 from the other side. The remaining four on the first side are chosen to make the game even as possible. The remaining 16 fight each other unless there is a large difference, in which case wait until it can be evened. If the queue takes too long, it will take the first 16 and sort them so that they are as equal as possible.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
07.21.2013 , 03:00 AM | #5176
Still waiting to hear how matchmaking determines group composition.

Oh wait, it won't do that.

Grats on pro-matchmaking supporters favoring a system that offers lopsided matches.

You have been debunked.

Vaerah's Avatar


Vaerah
07.21.2013 , 03:33 AM | #5177
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Still waiting to hear how matchmaking determines group composition.

Oh wait, it won't do that.

Grats on pro-matchmaking supporters favoring a system that offers lopsided matches.

You have been debunked.
It's not so "lopsided" because at the level that would benefit the most (newbies etc) group composition is less crucial than to more advanced teams. The guy healing you for 500 a tick won't do a lot of difference in his low category, while the guy healing for 1800 a tick does but he's in an higher category where it's more expected to get fairer squads.

It's not like a pure solo queue would do anything to fix the same issue, but hey, "debunking" is so easy, posting constructive alternatives with a reasoning behind them is not and guess what, you stop at the "debunking" phase.

TonyDragonflame's Avatar


TonyDragonflame
07.21.2013 , 03:48 AM | #5178
First goal for any matchmaking - its legacy wide ignore list and never make team with imbecils from it...
May the Force be with you!
Vigilance vr 100 | Scrapper vr 91 | Focus vr 91 | Assault vr 88 | Infiltration v 82 | Sharpshooter v 73
Manhunter 110+k killed imps | TRE | ToFN

Vaerah's Avatar


Vaerah
07.21.2013 , 04:05 AM | #5179
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyDragonflame View Post
First goal for any matchmaking - its legacy wide ignore list and never make team with imbecils from it...
If you play in regs, that'd mean a long, very long waiting time in queue...
Vaerah Shadow | Arayah Vanguard | Kainessa Gunslinger | ToFN server.
Vaerahn Sorceress | Vaerahm Marauder | ToFN server.

SWaotc's Avatar


SWaotc
07.21.2013 , 06:24 AM | #5180
Create a casual PVP tier where premades are not allowed and players get alternate rewards.
I'm not so much interested in PVP gear or any of the rest of that crap, it's simply an xp and/or credits affair for myself. Also I do like the gameplay but premades make great efforts to ruin that with their ultra competitive gameplay. (how about you put that energy into RL?)

I reckon there is a large number of people who ignore PVP because of premade vs PUG imbalance, sure its a team game and even if premades were not allowed in a casual tier players would still team up, however there would still be an evens chance that you could win.

LVL 55 is very boring if you don't play WZ (and that's not saying much...) though I guess that is better than the BS your offered in WZ currently.

I dunno this seems a lill too much like common sense perhaps, the L33T (lol) can play with themselves (pun intended) and the rest of us can have you know FUN?