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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Comfterbilly's Avatar


Comfterbilly
06.22.2013 , 05:55 PM | #3711
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
According to pro-premade groups. Ranked pvp BiS groups are a myth and a fairy tale. So this notion of separate queue's forcing casual groups to be thrown to the wolves is false.
This ^

AND, suddenly they care about being stuck in a queue with people who shouldn't be there. Priceless. Which goes back to what I said: all they care about is their win rate. That's all they're here for.
A man is only as strong as the computer he plays Huttball on...

***Sign the Solo-Only que for Warzone PVP.***
***Pug Vs. Premade: Vicious Verbal Jousting.***

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
06.22.2013 , 06:31 PM | #3712
Quote: Originally Posted by Comfterbilly View Post
This ^

AND, suddenly they care about being stuck in a queue with people who shouldn't be there. Priceless. Which goes back to what I said: all they care about is their win rate. That's all they're here for.
You still haven't provided any evidence for people claiming organized premades don't exist, but go on, keep making baseless claims, it just shows you've lost.

And premades have been asking for a matchmaking, which makes our win rate 50%, so we clearly don't care about that.

mulzii's Avatar


mulzii
06.22.2013 , 06:34 PM | #3713
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
Every argument you can make for premades being in the same queue with solo players are arguments you could make to raise the limit of premades from 4 to 8. Why can't 5- 8 people form a group and queue for warzones? This is a mmo and friends should all be able to play together after all. Why should they have to suffer long queue times just because they had enough gumption to form a 5-8 team? This is a social game. Discussing strategy among themselves is part of the game. They should not have to endure any longer queue times than the rest of the players.
agreed. BUT, thats what the ranked queue is for. And if this is what the premades really want, then they should all be pushing for a non-ranked premade queue. But most premade folks don't want competetion, they want their out-of-game communication advantage (which is huge) and rofl-stomping to pump their stats up...

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.22.2013 , 09:30 PM | #3714
Quote: Originally Posted by SajPl View Post
If casual groups are a problem for you then you are one of those badds that drag every team down, you will allways be loosing vs premade or pug, stop going into pvp, problem solved.
Who said they were a problem for me? Please find the quote that stated specifically that I was having the problem.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

Also good job assuming another persons situation which turns out to be 100% false in all aspects.

So post something relevant next time or stop being bad. Problem solved.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.22.2013 , 09:34 PM | #3715
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
please link me to a post where anyone in this thread says exactly that... pretty sure you cannot.

do you know what players that do RWZ do when their friends/guildmates are not all on for RWZ? they form smaller groups and do regs. and yeah, these folks are usually very skilled, on top of the other advantages they have (voip, team cohesion, etc). their intent is not to steamroll pugs, but to PLAY THE GAME. because they are good, and most pugs are bad, the result is often a steamroll. that isnt the premades fault; they arent cackling maniacally at their monitors at the potential e-tears they have created.....

skill based matchmaking would be a much, much better comprehensive solution. the bads in this thread are tired of being beaten by better players in groups? well im tired of having them in my warzones too, often costing us objectives that can be the direct cause for a loss. real skill based matchmaking benefits everyone: bads dont have to face players way above their head in skill level, and good players no longer have to deal with the frustration of having someone on their team that is licking the monitor.
Re-read the thread if you cannot find it. If you weren't paying attention then that's your own fault not mine.

Please stop asking people to do the hard work for you. You are dragging me down.

So you are tired of having bads in your warzones but don't want separate queue's because...they still allow bads in your warzones. Makes total sense.

Ever think that the skill pool of a server can't properly support a viable matchmaking system, thus rotating a group of bads between premades in a never-ending loop? No I guess you didn't think of that.

So what's the next excuse?

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.22.2013 , 09:38 PM | #3716
Quote: Originally Posted by akabane_k View Post
If you assume this is true, then there is no need for a seperate queue since those BIS groups that farm you don't actually exist.

You cannot change your assumptions based upon the argument you are trying to rebuke.

If farming premades and causal premades exist, matchmaking is the best option(as shown above)
If farming premades exist and casuals don't, separate is the best option. (what you are essentially arguing
If farming premades don't exist and casuals do, the curent system is best, since everyone is around the same skill, so no need for matchmaking or seperate queues.
If no premades exist, what are we arguing about.

So unless you can prove casual premades don't exist, seperate queues are not the best option. And this is impossible to prove, simply due to observation.
Ah yes those BIS groups don't exist but groups still do.

Groups naturally have a unfair advantage over a solo pug. So once again, separate queue's would fix the problem. Whether it be casual or not, a group of 4 will always have a better advantage over a 4 man solo squad. That's the heart of it.

I can always provide a very good reason for a separate queue no matter which angle the pro-premade team comes at me. Not pointing that at you personally, just that I heard it all before.

-Fal-'s Avatar


-Fal-
06.22.2013 , 09:40 PM | #3717
Everything is ruining this game!
It's just an object, doesn't mean what you think.

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
06.22.2013 , 09:57 PM | #3718
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Ah yes those BIS groups don't exist but groups still do.

Groups naturally have a unfair advantage over a solo pug. So once again, separate queue's would fix the problem. Whether it be casual or not, a group of 4 will always have a better advantage over a 4 man solo squad. That's the heart of it.

I can always provide a very good reason for a separate queue no matter which angle the pro-premade team comes at me. Not pointing that at you personally, just that I heard it all before.
Clearly you can't listen to reason and won't back up your claims. Imagine i said lfg pvp in chat, and 3 randoms answer. That is a premade, but has none of the advantages that you speak of. Therefore your premise is false.

You do not get voice chat, focus targeting, composition or better gear simply from being in a group. Those are a result of coordination, which is skill. Which is why there should be matchmaking, which separates by skill, rather than an arbitrary condition.

And as for population not supporting matchmaking, thats why the consolidated the servers,

MotorCityMan's Avatar


MotorCityMan
06.22.2013 , 10:00 PM | #3719
Quote: Originally Posted by akabane_k View Post
Not if it is true. There are reasonably objective ways to measure skill, or at least competence. If a person fails those tests, they are bad. It is not an insult, it is a fact.
There are no objective tests in evidence, hence it is rude. I could just as easily make an offhanded statement such as 'Premades are mostly bads hiding in a group who need the advantages of pre-selection of classes, voice communication, and several tries at working together just to be able to sometimes beat a random group of solo players'. Besides, it surely doesn't account for the fact that many players queue both in premades and as solo players. So are they "goods" only in a premade and "bads" when they solo queue?

I have mentioned before that WoW experiences this exact same conflict and has attempted to resolve it by designing a match making system that puts groups vs groups into the same battleground as much as possible, filling in with solo players to even out the numbers, leaving a large pool of solo players to fill out other battlegrounds. In this way, group is pitted against group and solo players vs solo players much more often. Solo players still end up in battlegrounds with premades, but it has helped alleviate the problem and seems to be working well with only a very small increase in queue times. SWTOR might be well served to copy it.

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
06.22.2013 , 10:12 PM | #3720
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
There are no objective tests in evidence, hence it is rude. I could just as easily make an offhanded statement such as 'Premades are mostly bads hiding in a group who need the advantages of pre-selection of classes, voice communication, and several tries at working together just to be able to sometimes beat a random group of solo players'. Besides, it surely doesn't account for the fact that many players queue both in premades and as solo players. So are they "goods" only in a premade and "bads" when they solo queue?

I have mentioned before that WoW experiences this exact same conflict and has attempted to resolve it by designing a match making system that puts groups vs groups into the same battleground as much as possible, filling in with solo players to even out the numbers, leaving a large pool of solo players to fill out other battlegrounds. In this way, group is pitted against group and solo players vs solo players much more often. Solo players still end up in battlegrounds with premades, but it has helped alleviate the problem and seems to be working well with only a very small increase in queue times. SWTOR might be well served to copy it.
how much dps/heals/prot did they do relative to the time they were fighting, how long can they hold a node solo, how quickly can they call out/respond to incoming. Can they count the amount of enemies they are fighting and realize that they are attacking the second node that you are defending. Are they able to keep an eye on the node even when fighting another, do they which channels to interrupt/stun for maximum effect. Do they use their cd's when taking damage or attempting to burst down an enemy.

These are all objective numbers or yes/no questions. If you can answer yes or give a high enough number to all these questions, there is a high chance you are a competent player.

and notice he said most not all.