Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
06.20.2013 , 11:22 AM | #3631
Quote: Originally Posted by cymonguk View Post
Also what does make me laugh is all the pro-premaders in regs on here telling pugs they are poor players and should l2p and they need to get in a group. Yet seem to be oblivious to the fact they could use their own advice,and l2p and group up to play in ranked warzones. Of course in there these leet premaders might get beat and not accrue all their commendations.
First, let's be clear on one thing:

Any player(s) having obtained max level and numbering 1 to 4 can queue for regular. This is everyone's queue, it is simply called regular. It is not the casual queue, the PuG queue, or any other name that designates it to any specific type of player.

Second,

You believe in fairness, yes?

Tell me then, how you can believe it is fair to ask a player who has:
1. Studied their class, and other classes to better counter them.
2. Found 3 other people.
3. Learned to work as a team.

and possibly:

4. Built their gear/crafted consumables.

How do you justify it being fair to ask this player to find 4 more people and play ranked, if a solo-only Player is unwilling to do the above first?
Player Responsibility: Players have the responsibility to strive for improvement before asking for changes.
Player Accountability: Insufficient credits, lack of gear, poor reputation, and inability to compete is the price of laziness, incompetence, and/or unwillingness.

Cretinus's Avatar


Cretinus
06.20.2013 , 11:27 AM | #3632
What is ruining non-ranked WZs are the f. operative/scoundrel healers and surely not the premades. But of course, a team of premades will always have at least 2 op/sc healers and there's no way to beat that. Even if the other team is a premade too and has 2 op/sc healers, nobody will be capping anything or dying.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
06.20.2013 , 11:38 AM | #3633
Quote: Originally Posted by Comfterbilly View Post
*snip*
*Taps foot patiently.*

Still waiting for your response, even if you like to keep dodging and trying to pick fights/arguments with others to continue trolling.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can't have it both ways. Your justification for solo-only queue option (aside from the normal queue now) is that with out it X amount of PuG's quitting the game will cause the queue's to lengthen and lead to Group players quitting.

Yet you also say, that if there is a solo-only queue option, there won't be a strong negative effect on the group queue because there will be enough PuG's still using it to sustain the group players queue times/subs. So only Y amount of PuG's will use the PuG-only option.

There is no logical reason for the value of Y in the second situation (PuG's leaving for the solo-only option) to be any less than than the value of X in the first situation (PuG's quitting), so Y is equal to or greater than X.

If X is enough (by your own post!) to damage/destroy the PvP population, then Y has the same effect.
If X is not great enough to damage/destroy the PvP population... then there is no justification for creating Y.

So is or isn't X enough PuG's qutting to damage the queue times and PvP population?
Player Responsibility: Players have the responsibility to strive for improvement before asking for changes.
Player Accountability: Insufficient credits, lack of gear, poor reputation, and inability to compete is the price of laziness, incompetence, and/or unwillingness.

Sharee's Avatar


Sharee
06.20.2013 , 11:52 AM | #3634
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
How do you justify it being fair to ask this player to find 4 more people and play ranked, if a solo-only Player is unwilling to do the above first?
Non-ranked is the 'natural environment' for solo players (since they are unable to play anywhere else)
Ranked is the 'natural environment' for grouped players (since they are the only ones able to play there)

When it comes to non-ranked, criticizing a solo player for being "unwilling to group" to play in an environment that is natural for solo queuers does not make sense.

On the other hand, asking a player who prefers groups to "find 4 more" so he can play in his natural environment does make sense.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
06.20.2013 , 11:57 AM | #3635
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
By most people, you mean nobody it seems.

I see you still failed to actually re-read. Is it really that hard? I can help if you really need me too.

Oh let me guess, the response will be "Well <insert excuse here> happened so...<Excuse#2>"

If you can't hold a meaningful discussion, just admit it....oh wait you have.
I guess you are a bit slow on the trigger today.... Not surprising really.

So I guess I will give you your meaningful discussion, you desire so much...



As it relates to Cash's SS:
1. Regardless of how stupid it is to even discuss objective points when his team likely spent 1/2 of the WZ double capped, .........
2. Not only the above, Cash was called out for "trying to exhibit his epeen" when he posted it, when it was pretty obvious that his intention was quite the opposite (which he also admitted after I put my post up). His numbers were viable given his role, then when you peel a layer back and see what he was subjected to (I wouldnt be surprised if the other team marked him), and peel back another layer that he was on a DPS MANDO(!), putting up 571K was actually pretty damn good.

Allow me to stroke his epeen.

GJ Cash!
So call me a jester or condesending all you want. One good troll, deserves another...


AmIrite?
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Well when u post something as stupid as that it makes u look like one of the infamous monitor lickers, or arguing just to do it. I am more than willing to assume the latter, but...


So let's review, we got one psycho likening this to rape, two people arguing just for the sake of arguing, and plenty of PuG butthurt..

Just when I thought it wouldn't be possible, I think the advocates have reached a new low....



As it relates to Zo and his hardware/lag matter:
Maybe I should have just put a question mark after my posts?

I'll take Relevancy for 100, Alex:

Answer: "They can't provide you with better hardware, they can't make you more "skilled", they can't provide you a "pause button for your RL issues", they cannot stunlock your join group button.

Question: "What are premades?"


If you want to talk "super-queing", voice-chat, blah. blah, blah...fine, but spitting out excuses like "my computer sucks" is not relevant to this discussion. "Bad" can mean a bunch of things in the gaming world. Regardless of which catergory you fall under, premades can't make your computer not suck, premades can't stop you from sucking less in your role.

Now with the proper context on a comment that went WAY over your head, can you understand:
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Screw that, let's just blame Canada while we are at it.....
While the poster was being sincere, I was being facetious to make light of the obvious irrelevant post... You know, "not being a dick" as a another poster put it.

So know that I have explained in detail why I posted what I did, please take the time to try to pick this apart. I will thoroughly enjoy any retort that will probably be about as deep as a kiddie pool.

I do enjoy forum PvP... <3 troll on young man, troll on...
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

HaLeX's Avatar


HaLeX
06.20.2013 , 11:59 AM | #3636
"""""You believe in fairness, yes?

Tell me then, how you can believe it is fair to ask a player who has:
1. Studied their class, and other classes to better counter them.
2. Found 3 other people.
3. Learned to work as a team.""""

This is totally naive. The problem is 90% of the population does not do those things. Can they? Sure, but then your throwing out 90% of the player base. Then what happens is you start to get the same premade stomping a different set of pugs every match. Then the pugs stop queing and the pvp population dies. This has already happened, 55 is a joke, its the same people every match, if anyone new comes in they make the team lose because there aren't enough noobs to compensate for them. The real reason premades despise the notion of premade only is because they know fully well what will happen. Most premades will get stomped by the same teams over and over and over and they will stop queing and premade pvp will be gone. So rather than have that happen they are willing to sacrifice the casual base of the game to keep stomping out easy wins. The only people this doesn't apply to is hardcore premades, but those people actually want to do ranked but can't find teams willing to take them on because there aren't enough hardcore players or they can't organize or they simply aren't as good. It's the ones who aren't good enough for ranked, but who can still win by using your methods who benefit the most, again at the expense of the community at large.
GatorCountry GatorNation GatorUniverse POT5 SithUnited

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
06.20.2013 , 12:01 PM | #3637
Quote: Originally Posted by Sharee View Post
Non-ranked is the 'natural environment' for solo players (since they are unable to play anywhere else)
Ranked is the 'natural environment' for grouped players (since they are the only ones able to play there)

When it comes to non-ranked, criticizing a solo player for being "unwilling to group" to play in an environment that is natural for solo queuers does not make sense.

On the other hand, asking a player who prefers groups to "find 4 more" so he can play in his natural environment does make sense.
That argument would work if ranked allowed either 4 or 8-man premades, but it doesn't. Ranked is just as unplayable to a 4-man premade as it is to a solo player. A 4-man's natural environment is still in regulars as is the Solo-players.

Secondly, a solo player doesn't have to be willing to group to play in regulars. That's not the question or issue.

The question is, how can a it be "fair" for a solo player to expect others who already do more work then they do to...
do even more work so the Solo-player can benefit (from their absence)?

Put simply, I can not ask you to walk two steps if I am unwilling to walk one.
Player Responsibility: Players have the responsibility to strive for improvement before asking for changes.
Player Accountability: Insufficient credits, lack of gear, poor reputation, and inability to compete is the price of laziness, incompetence, and/or unwillingness.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
06.20.2013 , 12:06 PM | #3638
Quote: Originally Posted by HaLeX View Post
"""""You believe in fairness, yes?

Tell me then, how you can believe it is fair to ask a player who has:
1. Studied their class, and other classes to better counter them.
2. Found 3 other people.
3. Learned to work as a team.""""

This is totally naive. The problem is 90% of the population does not do those things. Can they? Sure, but then your throwing out 90% of the player base. Then what happens is you start to get the same premade stomping a different set of pugs every match. Then the pugs stop queing and the pvp population dies. This has already happened, 55 is a joke, its the same people every match, if anyone new comes in they make the team lose because there aren't enough noobs to compensate for them. The real reason premades despise the notion of premade only is because they know fully well what will happen. Most premades will get stomped by the same teams over and over and over and they will stop queing and premade pvp will be gone. So rather than have that happen they are willing to sacrifice the casual base of the game to keep stomping out easy wins. The only people this doesn't apply to is hardcore premades, but those people actually want to do ranked but can't find teams willing to take them on because there aren't enough hardcore players or they can't organize or they simply aren't as good. It's the ones who aren't good enough for ranked, but who can still win by using your methods who benefit the most, again at the expense of the community at large.
Go back, re-read my question, then try that again. ^ that up there has nothing to do with the proposed question/concept and is mostly just word vomit.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel the need to add a disclaimer: I believe -everyone- should be upping their game as much as they can. New Players need to learn to play, PuG/Solo need to learn how to play as a team (whether by forming one or just playing as one), and groups should always be trying to form 8-mans for ranked. However, If you are not willing to do as least as much as I am, then I have no sympathy if you get smashed by those who worked harder than you.
Player Responsibility: Players have the responsibility to strive for improvement before asking for changes.
Player Accountability: Insufficient credits, lack of gear, poor reputation, and inability to compete is the price of laziness, incompetence, and/or unwillingness.

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
06.20.2013 , 12:06 PM | #3639
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
capped, .........
that meme is awesome rofl
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
06.20.2013 , 12:13 PM | #3640
Quote: Originally Posted by Sharee View Post
Non-ranked is the 'natural environment' for solo players (since they are unable to play anywhere else)
Ranked is the 'natural environment' for grouped players (since they are the only ones able to play there)

When it comes to non-ranked, criticizing a solo player for being "unwilling to group" to play in an environment that is natural for solo queuers does not make sense.

On the other hand, asking a player who prefers groups to "find 4 more" so he can play in his natural environment does make sense.
thing with ranked is it's seriously hard, and playing regs doesn't really prepare you for it. Team composition is important, but usually one of the easiest problems to overcome. Then it takes a lot of practice to learn to play as an 8 man unit, and once you get that you have to flesh out strategies. If you manage to get 8 people that build a somewhat reasonable team online at the same time and actually can start practicing, you'll do that pretty exlusively against teams that have been doing this for a few months already, so you'll lose most games, in a similar fashion as pugs lose against pvp guild premades.

Not many people can deal with this for as long as it takes, so every day it becomes harder and harder to get 8 people together. In consequence you're forced to make more compromises with the composition or get more inexperienced players into the team. Both lead to even worse losses, and so it continues.

On those days you don't get 8 people together, or after the first rage quits, you'll have 7 people on voice who are frustrated and want to pvp, so regs here we come.

I've seen this happen in 3 guilds now, while the top teams remain more or less the same, so it becomes harder and harder to enter the ranked scene.