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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Comfterbilly's Avatar


Comfterbilly
06.12.2013 , 06:20 PM | #3111
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
I don't see any thread for stuff like that getting that much attention, and the only reason this one is getting it because the advocates against are trying real hard not to laugh because at the core, these people are getting their feelings hurt.

Those things above impact everyone, not just the small sect of solo-que only players that thinks somehow the system is unfair and/or blame other players for grouping in a TEAM BASED MMO PVP. I'll throw you a bone. Go to lowbie, and disallow premades (in lowbie), no comms awarded (if you are already level 55), derp away.
It may not be something you're aware of, but people reading your posts are often left to wonder if you had the capacity to finish high school, much less score high in solo PVP. At first glance, I'd say you were just another "blamer", any warzone you didn't win, all someone else's fault. If not for that darn newbie PT, you just would have won. Darn it! Thank goodness they have a quit button for you to leave every WZ that's not a sure lock, and then come here and blame it on the seven other people who needed to "L2p". Maybe the truth is the 7 other players were stuck with a guy who wasn't as good as he thought he was.

Why else the obsession with comms if not the need for gear that makes your hits do more damage and other peoples' do less? No comms! LOL. Does Randle want a baba?
A man is only as strong as the computer he plays Huttball on...

***Sign the Solo-Only que for Warzone PVP.***
***Pug Vs. Premade: Vicious Verbal Jousting.***

Kovaos's Avatar


Kovaos
06.12.2013 , 06:45 PM | #3112
Does the 4 start rating of this thread mean 80% of people in this form agree with OP?
"my friend said he got a pack of level 50 armor and all i got was level 47 pants."

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
06.12.2013 , 07:01 PM | #3113
Quote: Originally Posted by Kovaos View Post
Does the 4 start rating of this thread mean 80% of people in this form agree with OP?
no, it just means that of the people that have bothered to rate it have given it that. and likely very few people have rated it.

i just rated this thread "bad" (since for some reason i cannot click "terrible")
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
06.12.2013 , 08:07 PM | #3114
Lol.

I took some time off, played preffered status for awhile, quit again, and have returned to find:

This tired conversation is still going?

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
06.12.2013 , 08:13 PM | #3115
Quote: Originally Posted by Comfterbilly View Post
It may not be something you're aware of, but people reading your posts are often left to wonder if you had the capacity to finish high school, much less score high in solo PVP. At first glance, I'd say you were just another "blamer", any warzone you didn't win, all someone else's fault. If not for that darn newbie PT, you just would have won. Darn it! Thank goodness they have a quit button for you to leave every WZ that's not a sure lock, and then come here and blame it on the seven other people who needed to "L2p". Maybe the truth is the 7 other players were stuck with a guy who wasn't as good as he thought he was.

Why else the obsession with comms if not the need for gear that makes your hits do more damage and other peoples' do less? No comms! LOL. Does Randle want a baba?
HAHAHA.... See that's your fail.... You are a walking contradiction here friend. You claim to want randomness but want to eliminate two of the possible outcomes. You claim to want competitive WZ, but want to eliminate the most competitive players. Actually my post are aimed at those who do not truly understand what competition means.

And who is talking about quitting here? It's not me. I don't give up, ever. I have NEVER quit a WZ as a PUG or a premade besides for RL stuff (and even that tends to "wait til this is over"). I have NEVER quit a WZ when I am backfilled because player like YOU are always willing to quit.

See, I have the coveted ability to use those stompings to test my limits, to see how good those "nasty premades" are... I can take victory from the sheer point of making them actually fight to earn those comms, instead of sitting on a turret to collect medals. It's even more funny when I discover how bad they are, when I kill one of them when outnumbers 2/3 on 1 (yes, that happens too).

After the match, I ask myself after the match was over "could I have done more" to carry those players that show up with 25K HP and running no stim. I am the guy handing out free augments, free stims, free advice, even though I know we are probably going to get stomped.. The only consolation is that I get something... Comms for my time...

+Newsflash... You can buy more than gear with comms. But since you "don't have an obsession with comms", you should have no problem with not getting any in lowbie; right? You will just be there just to have "fun". Hell, you don't even need a change, just reroll and play lowbie and be happy that the competition is watered down enough to your liking...
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.13.2013 , 06:45 AM | #3116
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
I hear your argument, you don't think matchmaking will work because the population isn't there to support creating a meaningful match. I would argue that a solo queue would suffer far worse from low pop than matchmaking would because the games would actually happen and would be fairly even unless there were literally only enough people for one game in queue. Here are my scenarios to explain why solo queue is worse for low pop than matchmaking.

Scenario 1) There are only enough people to make 1 warzone queuing (16-31 people in queue)

Result with matchmaking: It will make whatever game it can and if it's same faction, will have even distribution of skill if applicable and as close a distribution as possible if cross faction.

Result with solo queue: Will create the game if possible, but if there are not enough in solo or group queues, no game happens

Scenario 2) You have enough people for 2 games (32-48 people in queue)

Result with matchmaking: It puts an even distribution of skill on each team and creates a higher rated game and lower rated game. In the event that there is one cross faction and one same faction game, the cross faction game will have players selected based on the skill of the lower pop faction and the same faction game will then split up the remaining same faction players into even teams.

Result with Solo Queue: Most likely, one game happens unless the group/solo split is very even and those queued are appropriate faction to create a game and are in the right queue. Still no way to know if the teams will even be even as you are putting whoever can queue together.

Scenario 3) Plenty of people in queue to have 3 games running (50+)

Result with Matchmaking: All games have teams of equal skill level since there is a large pop to choose from

Result with solo queue: Should be enough to put multiple games together, but will certainly be fewer games than a mixed queue since you need the right breakdown of solo/group queuers. Games may or may not be even as it fills games with the first available person regardless.
I think we both know I can easily provide scenario's that go the other way, I'll skip that though unless you really want me too.

I'm finally seeing the pattern here though, it goes in sort of a loop, I think you addressed it as well.

High population server-
1. A big enough player pool could support two separate queue's
2. A big enough player pool could support a decent match making system.

So with one, you pretty much offer what a lot of solo queuers want in one move. While on the grouped pvp side, you can still maintain proper queue times. With two, you still get good queue times but the level of skill to provide balanced matches is still a gamble. Every server is going to have a different skill variety but it still leaves that chance to offer lopsided matches, that's why I don't think it'll help.

Low population server-
1. Not a big enough player pool to get the most out of separate queue's. Whether it will bring it more players, well I believe it will, but that's a matter of opinion, like most of this thread.
2. Not a big enough player pool to get the most benefit out of match making. I already covered this though, If you got the same 16ish people queueing, nothing is really going to change the balance of the game.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.13.2013 , 06:55 AM | #3117
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
1. The game was dying. You rarely had 8 guild members on let alone proper composition.
2. People complained about #1.

At least those complaints were valid because it actually prevented you from playing endgame PvE. PuGGin an OP is no picnic either, and you are putting creds on the line for failure. I doubt if any of the advocates can stomach even doing that since premades are "such a problem".

EDIT: and you could end up PuGGin OPS/FP with a premade... Should we disallow that too?



Point gone over your head....
I have no problem with disagreements and I have NEVER actually asked for a thread to be deleted. Why would I do it this time? Because this thread garnering this much attention, its silly.... We, as a community, should be more concerned with:
**** that's broken....
**** content (or lack thereof)...
**** class balance...
**** mechanics...

I don't see any thread for stuff like that getting that much attention, and the only reason this one is getting it because the advocates against are trying real hard not to laugh because at the core, these people are getting their feelings hurt.

Those things above impact everyone, not just the small sect of solo-que only players that thinks somehow the system is unfair and/or blame other players for grouping in a TEAM BASED MMO PVP. I'll throw you a bone. Go to lowbie, and disallow premades (in lowbie), no comms awarded (if you are already level 55), derp away.


Cliff Notes:
Agree/disagree with things that actually impact every player in the entire game.
You asked where does bioware support solo queue anywhere in this game?

I responded and gave you a simple answer(to you're benefit).

So the excuse was well....You had a bad experience? Weren't you just complaining about people "crying" in pretty much every post you make?

As far as Pugging PVE ops, I only wasn't able to finish two times in let's say the 30-40ish I did. Dang different experiences, who would of thought?

So now you want issues that apply to "everyone" it seems. Funny how what you think needs attention must be want everyone wants. There is a reason why people talk to you like a child.

**** that's broken....

Besides this issue, everything else is fine.

**** content (or lack thereof)...

I only enjoy huttball, this issue is fine.

**** class balance...

L2P issue, I do well on any class in PVP.

**** mechanics...

Read above

So, I'm still waiting for you to provide more issues that apply to "everyone", I gather I'll be waiting quite a bit though.

Can you please quote bioware when they said you speak for all of us? I am enjoying the tears you provide though.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
06.13.2013 , 08:22 AM | #3118
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
I think we both know I can easily provide scenario's that go the other way, I'll skip that though unless you really want me too.

I'm finally seeing the pattern here though, it goes in sort of a loop, I think you addressed it as well.

High population server-
1. A big enough player pool could support two separate queue's
2. A big enough player pool could support a decent match making system.

So with one, you pretty much offer what a lot of solo queuers want in one move. While on the grouped pvp side, you can still maintain proper queue times. With two, you still get good queue times but the level of skill to provide balanced matches is still a gamble. Every server is going to have a different skill variety but it still leaves that chance to offer lopsided matches, that's why I don't think it'll help.

Low population server-
1. Not a big enough player pool to get the most out of separate queue's. Whether it will bring it more players, well I believe it will, but that's a matter of opinion, like most of this thread.
2. Not a big enough player pool to get the most benefit out of match making. I already covered this though, If you got the same 16ish people queueing, nothing is really going to change the balance of the game.
Even if solo queue were implemented and it had the exact impact you expect on games, low pop servers won't have games popping for anyone to find out because the separate queues will be even smaller than they are. On higher pop servers, you still haven't resolved the issue of one team being better than the other in either queue, but increased queue times at all hours to the point of not having queue pops at extreme off times.

I find matchmaking to be a better alternative because it keeps the population in queue the same, it doesn't punish people for playing with their friends, and it still allows PvP to continue at all times. If grouping is so much better than solo queuing (in terms of chance to win as you and others have claimed), then those who group more often will have a higher rating and play primarily other groups anyway and separate the queues indirectly. If not, then my point is proven that groups don't have an advantage, just groups with better players and we'll see even fights happening in warzones as ratings will create better matchups. I don't see why we need a fix for solo queuers but not a fix for casual groups that run into the same problems when facing a much better team. "Well, they signed up for groups", is a pretty crappy way to say that it doesn't affect you, so it doesn't need to be fixed like solo queuing does.

So far, the only argument I've gotten from you is that matchmaking won't work when it works in any number of other games. Population is a concern, but it's a concern for any solution that is tried and we have to hope that the changes made bring in more players (at least it will keep queues popping when the pop is really low unlike separating the queues). I think knowing that you will be placed with equally skilled players is a bigger draw than telling people they won't have to face groups. I don't care if you took premades out if the same one guy solo kills me 15 times in a warzone because he's that much better than me.
I have opinions and stuff

chaosmadness's Avatar


chaosmadness
06.13.2013 , 09:58 AM | #3119
Well, the problem is not facing premades...the real problem is facing players more skilled than you..

whatever, nobody likes to lose, but someone will lose..


TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.13.2013 , 11:42 AM | #3120
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
Even if solo queue were implemented and it had the exact impact you expect on games, low pop servers won't have games popping for anyone to find out because the separate queues will be even smaller than they are. On higher pop servers, you still haven't resolved the issue of one team being better than the other in either queue, but increased queue times at all hours to the point of not having queue pops at extreme off times.

I find matchmaking to be a better alternative because it keeps the population in queue the same, it doesn't punish people for playing with their friends, and it still allows PvP to continue at all times. If grouping is so much better than solo queuing (in terms of chance to win as you and others have claimed), then those who group more often will have a higher rating and play primarily other groups anyway and separate the queues indirectly. If not, then my point is proven that groups don't have an advantage, just groups with better players and we'll see even fights happening in warzones as ratings will create better matchups. I don't see why we need a fix for solo queuers but not a fix for casual groups that run into the same problems when facing a much better team. "Well, they signed up for groups", is a pretty crappy way to say that it doesn't affect you, so it doesn't need to be fixed like solo queuing does.

So far, the only argument I've gotten from you is that matchmaking won't work when it works in any number of other games. Population is a concern, but it's a concern for any solution that is tried and we have to hope that the changes made bring in more players (at least it will keep queues popping when the pop is really low unlike separating the queues). I think knowing that you will be placed with equally skilled players is a bigger draw than telling people they won't have to face groups. I don't care if you took premades out if the same one guy solo kills me 15 times in a warzone because he's that much better than me.
You are ignoring the fact that you can't determine how much of a skill difference there will be on one server. So if you got 3 awesome premade groups and 1 bad premade/pug group then matchmaking will just rotate the three awesome groups around each match and leave the bad premade/pug group getting the short end of the stick. There I just proved how you're system doesn't help- Grouped casuals AND solo puggers.

Like you and many others claim, the BiS premade supereliteherogodmode groups are a myth and if they are true they make up hardly a fraction of what goes on in PVP. So with that being said, if you separate queues to offer two options you do the following:

1. You eliminate the problem for every solo pug out there from being stomped by these guys.
2. Casual groups won't run into these guys because they only make up a fraction of the PVP population, so it cant be an issue.

Stop trying to say I'm ignoring another side, when I just stated multiple times fixes for both. Matchmaking still allows Overgeared/BiS/Superherogodmode groups to go against pugs. Matchmaking is in a lot of multiplayer games, too bad only Halo was able to do it right. You know what's in some multiple gamers though? Solo only queue.

When people are jumping at transfers to get some PVP action, it's clear a 2 option PVP system is bad.