Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Sobotsinski's Avatar


Sobotsinski
05.31.2013 , 07:22 PM | #2701
Quote: Originally Posted by sirullrich View Post
Really if I'm trolling prove it that you know for sure that pugs are never grouped with premades.
Your trolling was called, but still you insist that we buy it? How cute.

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
05.31.2013 , 08:40 PM | #2702
The people who enjoy pugstomping on a regular basis are mediocre players and/or players with irl issues. They need to feel better about themselves either in game in real life or both. You will never convince them that they shouldn't get to stomp pugs.

Most of the good premaders quit SWTOR long ago since there isn't much competition here and pugstomping is boring for good players without irl issues.

Instead of arguing with them just focus on discussing the negatives for casual players and the larger number of casual players in mmos.

The main issues do no relate to voice chat. When I led pvp guilds we of course used voice chat but sometimes we were lazy and we did not and yet we still wrecked. In SWTOR the main issue is how well taunts/guarding and heals work together as well as premades being allowed to make up 50% of a wz. Also super q'n is pretty easy to pull off.

Mediocre players in good gear and with the right composition should easily win against most pugs. The softcap to skill for most classes is very low and while great players will still be far better than mediocre players the easiness of most classes allows 4 mediocre players who have taunts and heals to be a very strong team.

For example, pug healing against a much stronger team takes a lot of skill to be great at. However, healing when you are not pressured is laughably easy. Also, smash is a very popular spec but many of the smashers who do very well in premades are actually pretty horrible when they are in a pug and the other team is much better than them.

Comfterbilly's Avatar


Comfterbilly
05.31.2013 , 10:36 PM | #2703
Yeah I just logged out of one after two nice games. Description: ultra-crit gravity spam ten feet at a time running up the ramp, ultra-crit commando heals nonstop spam into a ball carrier who is going to live through any damage, and since he can't die obviously resolve has been popped ages ago, log out of my favorite warzone full of pugs because it's despicable. Honestly I'm just as upset with this company as I am with the lowlife gimmick spammers they're catering to. I see the Devs respond on all kinds of other issues, if they intend to give us the finger the might as well say so publicly so we can leave Swtor for good. I have one friend who plays this game, I moved far out of the area, if he didn't play this buggy *** shadow of KOTOR's former self, I would leave it without thinking twice.

Those two games before huttball though? Awesome.

And it was one of those insta-queues too (the Huttball). Insta-queue translation - when other solo players are logging out in disgust with this game left and right so you get a queue pop the instant you click the button.

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓ ↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
A man is only as strong as the computer he plays Huttball on...

***Sign the Solo-Only que for Warzone PVP.***
***Pug Vs. Premade: Vicious Verbal Jousting.***

Nessaia's Avatar


Nessaia
06.01.2013 , 12:10 AM | #2704
Strange how most of those complaining about premades don't display any information about who they are or where they play in their sigs. That would really interest me.

Anyway, I'd like to ask all you stalwart anti-premaders some questions, out of sheer curiosity.
First of all, have you ever even been invited to a group of other people to do pvp with them ? Have you ever played pvp in a premade group with other people AT ALL, or have you only been solo-queueing since you started playing? Or did you convert from a premader to a pugger after you discovered how 'wrong' the current system is? If someone DID ask you to join them, did you decline out of sheer nobility so as not to be a part of an 'advantageous' premade group yourself?

Do you know how many guilds there are out there and how many of them form premades - and can you honestly say they are all top-level quality? How often a night do you approximately lose as a pure PUG against the same premades over and over again? How often do you get matched up with a premade on your OWN team? How can you tell that you DON'T have a premade on your own team? What exactly is so incredibly scary about premades on the other team that leads you to promote the separation of queues so badly? How often have you lost matches because you were up against such overpowering premades as opposed to simply having total nubcakes on your own team?

Then, where do you get the notion that every premade out there is somehow part of a ranked team, or out for high-level competitive pvp? Have you ever actually PLAYED ranked at all? Have you ever organised it, discussed a good group composition, played against other top teams? Do you know which premades on your server even DO ranked?

This will make an interesting read, I'll wager. I'm tired of hearing the same arguments over and over again, I just really want to know where all you people are coming from. And please, if you can refrain from using the words 'facerolling', 'pugstomping' and 'people with rl issues' in you answers, it would be very much appreciated.
Saesha / Caedryn TRE

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
06.01.2013 , 02:02 AM | #2705
Quote: Originally Posted by Nessaia View Post
Strange how most of those complaining about premades don't display any information about who they are or where they play in their sigs. That would really interest me.

Anyway, I'd like to ask all you stalwart anti-premaders some questions, out of sheer curiosity.
First of all, have you ever even been invited to a group of other people to do pvp with them ? Have you ever played pvp in a premade group with other people AT ALL, or have you only been solo-queueing since you started playing? Or did you convert from a premader to a pugger after you discovered how 'wrong' the current system is? If someone DID ask you to join them, did you decline out of sheer nobility so as not to be a part of an 'advantageous' premade group yourself?

Do you know how many guilds there are out there and how many of them form premades - and can you honestly say they are all top-level quality? How often a night do you approximately lose as a pure PUG against the same premades over and over again? How often do you get matched up with a premade on your OWN team? How can you tell that you DON'T have a premade on your own team? What exactly is so incredibly scary about premades on the other team that leads you to promote the separation of queues so badly? How often have you lost matches because you were up against such overpowering premades as opposed to simply having total nubcakes on your own team?

Then, where do you get the notion that every premade out there is somehow part of a ranked team, or out for high-level competitive pvp? Have you ever actually PLAYED ranked at all? Have you ever organised it, discussed a good group composition, played against other top teams? Do you know which premades on your server even DO ranked?

This will make an interesting read, I'll wager. I'm tired of hearing the same arguments over and over again, I just really want to know where all you people are coming from. And please, if you can refrain from using the words 'facerolling', 'pugstomping' and 'people with rl issues' in you answers, it would be very much appreciated.
they are the same people that cry about gear being imba, or classes being fotm, or heals being op. It all stems from the fact that they cannot realize that they are bad. In order to objectively judge skill, you need a decent amount of skill to begin with. Without that, the reasoning process will be something like, "I lost, therefore the other team must have had some sort of unfair advantage", right now it seems to be premades. Ideally, people will think "I lost, what can I do to improve, be it find competent teammates, improve my gear/rotation/become more aware"
I used to only pug wz's but now only premades, to avoid people like this, who don't learn basic teamwork and rotations, and blame others for their loss.

complaining that premades use unfair gimmicks and strats is about as logical as going into a raid and saying "i don't want to practice my rotation or learn mechanics, im just going to do whatever i want" You would get booted in about 5 seconds, why should people who use inferior strategies be allowed to win in pvp?

On a side note, voice chat only provides minimal advantages if you are aware of what the other team is doing. When winning, there are two scenarios, either a single enemy is attacking the node, and the defender should be able to hold them off long enough even if you werent using voice chat. Other scenario is multiple attackers, and you shouldnt even need a call for that, since you should notice when you are outnumbering the enemy.
Focusing target, at least basically, can be done with marking or just saying focus the healer. When attacking, you shouldnt need someone to tell you to cc when someone is capping or to not break cc.

deedeede's Avatar


deedeede
06.01.2013 , 03:05 AM | #2706
"complaining that premades use unfair gimmicks and strats is about as logical as going into a raid and saying "i don't want to practice my rotation or learn mechanics, im just going to do whatever i want" You would get booted in about 5 seconds, why should people who use inferior strategies be allowed to win in pvp?"

an ordinary german pug will pretty much steam roll the so called good premades on other NA and EU shards;

purpose of the thread is not knowing tactics or how to play when pug?

_________________________
not enough "wanna be mods" on the same and various topic

MotorCityMan's Avatar


MotorCityMan
06.01.2013 , 03:30 AM | #2707
Until there is some sort of matchmaking system, instanced warzones that allow premades vs solo players, especially when there are only 8 members on a team, are just instanced farms. It's not pvp, not even close. It's just a huge mismatch with one group of players beating up on the other.
Ever since Blizzard tricked everyone into believing that instanced battlegrounds were pvp, it's been the unfortunate model for pvp in mmos. But instances depend on constant fine tuning, and no games company commits that sort of resources to instanced pvp. World pvp offers a fluid, player driven environment. Resources would be better spent developing that than more instanced farm zones.

JattaGin's Avatar


JattaGin
06.01.2013 , 03:59 AM | #2708
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika View Post
The people who enjoy pugstomping on a regular basis are mediocre players and/or players with irl issues. They need to feel better about themselves either in game in real life or both. You will never convince them that they shouldn't get to stomp pugs.
^^This! And add to that: People enjoying pugstomping on RP-PvE-servers, because they do not dare to play on a PvP server!

Quote: Originally Posted by Nessaia View Post
Anyway, I'd like to ask all you stalwart anti-premaders some questions, out of sheer curiosity. First of all, have you ever even been invited to a group of other people to do pvp with them ? Have you ever played pvp in a premade group with other people AT ALL, or have you only been solo-queueing since you started playing? Or did you convert from a premader to a pugger after you discovered how 'wrong' the current system is? If someone DID ask you to join them, did you decline out of sheer nobility so as not to be a part of an 'advantageous' premade group yourself?
Well then, since you asked. I had a very active guild last year and last summer we had quite a good PvP premade running. 8 people or 2x4 people, depending on where we queued. At the same time, I always loved to pug. Back then, I was also doing it to recruit good PvPers. So I know both sides. My premade fell apart after a few months, because it was just stupid and no fun at all to play against pugs. And we hardly ever got a ranked, because the Imps who had several ranked premades never went in - because of facing real competition there. So the situation back then was: Several Imp premades, ready for ranked, but scared to go because they lose there, flooded the poor pugs on the server (both, the reps and the imps). Since the Autumn I decline playing in premades, because - as you say it - I find the system wrong and I do not have irl issues. So I rather try to help poor pugs and once in a while I cause them a win against a premade and this is a very rewarding feeling. Just last week, I capped the second turret in the hypergate wz with my stealther against a premade and managed to secure it for the last remaining 25 seconds alone against 5 (!) players (4 from the premade + 1 - which just proves that premades are not even good, but solely rely on overpowering the pugs). This caused a already looking lost warzone to become a winner. You should have seen the cheering in the chat. Some players probably won the first time ever. Not because they are so bad. No, because they never get a pug against a pug before.

So, are you satisfied with my answer? Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones. Not as much as before 2.0 thanks to bolster and a lot of premaders finally leaving the game, but still. You can deny it, but it is how it is.

spectreclees's Avatar


spectreclees
06.01.2013 , 05:04 AM | #2709
I just want cross server queues to have less of a chance to play premades from my server. I want variety and yes I realize it means I will have a larger chance at premades. I just don't want to play the same people over and over. Stop closing me off from the rest of the community.

Comfterbilly's Avatar


Comfterbilly
06.01.2013 , 09:15 AM | #2710
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
Until there is some sort of matchmaking system, instanced warzones that allow premades vs solo players, especially when there are only 8 members on a team, are just instanced farms. It's not pvp, not even close. It's just a huge mismatch with one group of players beating up on the other.
Ever since Blizzard tricked everyone into believing that instanced battlegrounds were pvp, it's been the unfortunate model for pvp in mmos. But instances depend on constant fine tuning, and no games company commits that sort of resources to instanced pvp. World pvp offers a fluid, player driven environment. Resources would be better spent developing that than more instanced farm zones.
Maybe the devs at BW are just young and immature enough to think that pushing for more organization and bumping up the play level, which are two good things, are good reasons to justify the huge mismatch in their casual queue (but no, those are not good reasons). If so, they are probably also naive enough to think a bandaid like buggy match-making sort-ware is good enough medicine to fix a huge, systemic problem as widespread as this has become, optimistic as that may be.

Hopefully they grow up and realize they've got some inexcusable mismatching going on in their system, and a population of premades who are actually bringing down the game play as well as taking advantage of their queuing system because they really are that petty.

These "great noble premades of ultimate skill" are usually just gravity-spamming plus ranged DPS plus sentinel speed plus immorto heals plus guardian running around twice as fast as everybody else taking advantage of the no-challenge game play.

Whatever BW devs think, this ^ can't be what they're shooting for; it's what they're getting, to me, I think the company ought to be embarrassed to be hosting such a thing.
A man is only as strong as the computer he plays Huttball on...

***Sign the Solo-Only que for Warzone PVP.***
***Pug Vs. Premade: Vicious Verbal Jousting.***