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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Kovaos's Avatar


Kovaos
05.30.2013 , 12:22 PM | #2611
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
I will always maintain that groups that make up half the team or less do not have a significant advantage in warzones. As long as skill is equal on both sides, premades will not matter. The issue with queues at this point is that you will most likely be matched with players that have a significant difference in skill level from you (better or worse) and the warzone will most likely be one sided.

Strictly from a number standpoint, if I am 3rd in damage out of the whole warzone and the next closes teammate is 10th, there is a skill disparity that can't be overcome by one player overall (assuming I had allies focused on damage and not a bunch of tanks and healers). But I obviously was still able to successfully damage the opponent without having a premade with me, proving that a PUG with some skill can face a premade without a problem. I just got placed with allies that were not on the same skill level as the rest of the warzone.

Now this is an exaggerated example, but when you have 2-3 players who are significantly below the opposing team, it doesn't matter if the opposition is grouped or not. You are going to lose until BW finds a way to put you with equally skilled players or at least balances out the skill levels of the players on each team.

Also, I'm sure the players in the CFL would not agree with your comparisons, but the NFL is more popular and pays more money. From that perspective, yes, they want to move to the NFL. But it isn't a very good comparison to this game. Every match here is a pick-up game in your backyard and sometimes you have to play against the best kid on the block.
I'm not sure if we are disagreeing on agreeing or just using symantecs (except the CFL part, I would bet every single player in the CFL would kill for a chance to play with the best and get paid like the best).

From what I've seen almost all premades consist of better geared players with more experience. Give them a mic and there's more of an advantage. I do believe pugs have a chance though and I'm sure I've been part of several matches where we have beat a premade. I've also probably been part of a premade that has lost to some noobs, I mean pugs.

However, I think I'm on to something in that when a group of 4 queues they should be matched with another group of 4. One major problem with a matchmaking system that might compare gear is the premade or group of players could just swap their gear and put it back on when they've joined the match. I'm not sure how a match making system that compares valor would work, maybe it would be better.
"my friend said he got a pack of level 50 armor and all i got was level 47 pants."

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
05.30.2013 , 12:23 PM | #2612
Quote: Originally Posted by Sharee View Post
As i said above, i do not quit matches. I saw plenty of lost game scorecards where i am at the top, then the whole enemy team, then the rest of my team.

EDIT and why the heck are you scrutinizing my behavior in matches. This is a thread about premades runing nonranked warzones, not about my personal warzone habits!
You specifically brought up leaving warzones to avoid premades, so I addressed it.

Ultimately we are in agreement that lopsided battles aren't fun. The fact of the matter is, removing premades from the queue only makes the queue longer, not better. You can still be in a PUG only queue and be the only person in the top 8 on your team. I don't know what your skill level is, it could be extremely high or you could be the worst of the worst. Either way, you should be playing with the same caliber of player as you, regardless of grouping.

The only thing that premading gives as an advantage right now is guaranteeing that you have 4 competent players on your team at least. Most of the time it's not even used for that, but to have fun with friends in a stress free environment. The real problem is unfair warzones and you will still have them in a solo only and group queue, although the lopsided games will probably be more prevalent in the group queue. Leave everyone together to keep queue times down and find get a hidden rating to match your players. It's a simple, easy solution.
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Comfterbilly's Avatar


Comfterbilly
05.30.2013 , 12:25 PM | #2613
"Matchmaking" is the new ranked: just another false argument. Ranked queue is all cobwebs and spiders because they don't want to play with each other either. If the risks are too great and the rewards are too small for queuing ranked and losing ---- that is their issue with the developers and that is their issue with their skill level. really they are complaining about the Queue BECAUSE premades are allowed to choose pugrolling over group queue.
A man is only as strong as the computer he plays Huttball on...

***Sign the Solo-Only que for Warzone PVP.***
***Pug Vs. Premade: Vicious Verbal Jousting.***

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
05.30.2013 , 12:28 PM | #2614
Quote: Originally Posted by Kovaos View Post
I'm not sure if we are disagreeing on agreeing or just using symantecs (except the CFL part, I would bet every single player in the CFL would kill for a chance to play with the best and get paid like the best).

From what I've seen almost all premades consist of better geared players with more experience. Give them a mic and there's more of an advantage. I do believe pugs have a chance though and I'm sure I've been part of several matches where we have beat a premade. I've also probably been part of a premade that has lost to some noobs, I mean pugs.

However, I think I'm on to something in that when a group of 4 queues they should be matched with another group of 4. One major problem with a matchmaking system that might compare gear is the premade or group of players could just swap their gear and put it back on when they've joined the match. I'm not sure how a match making system that compares valor would work, maybe it would be better.
We probably agree overall that skill needs to be more equal on both sides. The issue is you can't say that a group has an advantage just for being a group because many times they aren't doing anything special, just want to play together. So you then have really competitive groups practicing taking on 4 friends who just hit 55 on alts.

Ratings should not involve valor. I don't care how many matches you've played, it doesn't matter to me. Rating shouldn't involve gear, because again, it's only a measure of how long you've played. Wins/losses is the way to go. You may lose or win some games because of your team, but in the long run your rating will be in the right spot.
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Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
05.30.2013 , 12:29 PM | #2615
Quote: Originally Posted by Comfterbilly View Post
"Matchmaking" is the new ranked: just another false argument. Ranked queue is all cobwebs and spiders because they don't want to play with each other either. If the risks are too high and the rewards are too great free queuing ranked and losing ---- that is their issue with the developers and that is their issue with their skill level. really they are complaining about the Queue BECAUSE premades are allowed to choose pugrolling over group queue.
...wut?

Hidden matchmaking wouldn't give you an option, it would just put you against equally skilled players...?
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Sharee's Avatar


Sharee
05.30.2013 , 12:29 PM | #2616
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
You specifically brought up leaving warzones to avoid premades, so I addressed it.
I only did it to counter your claim that by queueing for a warzone i somehow forfeit the right to have a fun match.(since quitting and requeueing fixes that)

Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
Ultimately we are in agreement that lopsided battles aren't fun. The fact of the matter is, removing premades from the queue only makes the queue longer, not better.
That's a misunderstanding. I do not want to remove premades from the queue. I want to remove *myself* from being considered for a warzone that contains a premade. The difference is, other solo players that do not mind facing a premade still can. There is no separate queue.

Kovaos's Avatar


Kovaos
05.30.2013 , 12:35 PM | #2617
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
We probably agree overall that skill needs to be more equal on both sides. The issue is you can't say that a group has an advantage just for being a group because many times they aren't doing anything special, just want to play together. So you then have really competitive groups practicing taking on 4 friends who just hit 55 on alts.
You're right, and I don't believe just cause there's a premade they will win. I do believe most of the premades I see seem to be better geared and more skilled.
"my friend said he got a pack of level 50 armor and all i got was level 47 pants."

Comfterbilly's Avatar


Comfterbilly
05.30.2013 , 01:03 PM | #2618
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
...wut?

Hidden matchmaking wouldn't give you an option, it would just put you against equally skilled players...?
Premaedes are comforting themselves with the false notion that the need for separate queues has anything to do with skill (or matchmaking). I've lost huttball matches 0-6 and still gotten top medans and still call it a great war zone experience because of the quality of the game play. What we get rid of when we get rid of premades in our queue, are the groups whose strategy is to shut down game play. No more coordinated chain stunning, cross-healing, immorto-predation, gimmick spamming.

Get rid of the gimmick-spam, none of the solo players are going to complain about "skill levels".
A man is only as strong as the computer he plays Huttball on...

***Sign the Solo-Only que for Warzone PVP.***
***Pug Vs. Premade: Vicious Verbal Jousting.***

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
05.30.2013 , 01:08 PM | #2619
Quote: Originally Posted by Comfterbilly View Post
Premaedes are comforting themselves with the false notion that the need for separate queues has anything to do with skill (or matchmaking). I've lost huttball matches 0-6 and still gotten top medans and still call it a great war zone experience because of the quality of the game play. What we get rid of when we get rid of premades in our queue, are the groups whose strategy is to shut down game play. No more coordinated chain stunning, cross-healing, immorto-predation, gimmick spamming.

Get rid of the gimmick-spam, none of the solo players are going to complain about "skill levels".
I apologize that many PUGs spam CC on CD and so there is no strategy. Believe me, if that's what you like to see, you will lose plenty of games to play with the same unskilled players doing the same terrible things in warzones. Just because I queue solo doesn't mean I don't know how to pop predation when the previous predation wears off. It doesn't mean I don't know how to stun a healer when we get someone else low on health to prevent him from getting healed back up. These are things better players do without being told to or needing a premade.
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DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
05.30.2013 , 01:16 PM | #2620
The problem with premades is that they make up 50% of a team in a game where GUARDING / TAUNTING + HEALING is king. Four mediocre players in good gear and with the right composition should stomp most pugs. Hell, four terrible players with good gear and good team composition should win many mathces against pugs.

Sure these horrible premades get stomped by decent premades but that is why these premades don't run in ranked.

It is hard to believe that so many of you are still focused on the voice chat portion. It is an advantage no doubt but that is no where near the major advantage in this game.