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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

sauerkraut's Avatar


sauerkraut
05.27.2013 , 04:13 AM | #2451
Just separate PUGs from premades and keep the seminar for those who care.

Ajuntalee's Avatar


Ajuntalee
05.27.2013 , 04:53 AM | #2452
Quote:
Just separate PUGs from premades and keep the seminar for those who care.
Surely you understand that in 200+ pages and since the existence of WoW's BGs and the countless tired argument on the subject there,

this simplistic solution has already been suggested and thought over, and has been discarded for many very concrete and solid reasons.

Among which,
Queuing time,
Variating group sizes,
The mathematical impossibilities of filling bg of 8 vs 8 exclusively with groups of 3,
the already existing " ranked "bracket,
the already "smart" matchmaking engine that constatanly weights the average desire of evenly dispatched solos to fill uncomplete teams against the queing time to find the best compromise between, exact team comp match and queuing time.

The checkbox for people willing to wait more for solo only is the only solution I ve seen put forward so far
with very little to no negative impact on others players or even a positive impact on other players
AND giving people for whom solo only is of more important than queuing time

Zhaker's Avatar


Zhaker
05.27.2013 , 05:27 AM | #2453
Quote: Originally Posted by sauerkraut View Post
But still, you are here and begging for the chance to play against PUGs. Why is it? Why don't you wanna play against other premades?
So where did I say I want to fight only pug again?

The reason why I am against PuG vs PuG cause it'll do a few stupid things:

- Premade will just simple queue solo and time it so that they group up.
- PuG vs PuG ends up being a herp derp stupid match, its just DM and nothing else.

Now to say I dont vs against other premades, why dont you come to Harbinger 55 on reset as Empire when we get to face Republic superqueues. I deal with them all the time, Premade or PuG.

Stop assuming that premades want to pug stomp, and if they do its because your stupid to let that happen in the first place. If you werent stupid then you can tell me off, but as far as I am concerned PuGs are beyond hope sometimes.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
05.27.2013 , 05:56 AM | #2454
Quote: Originally Posted by Kontraz View Post
Let's try to use some formal logic on this one.

The proposed premise:
"It's not fair, a premade is needed to win."
with the added addendum:
"I don't want to form a premade."
therefore:
"It's not fair, I don't want to do what is needed to win."

If both of the proposed premises are true (which, according to many arguing against premades, they are) then the conclusion is true by definition. There you have it. The conclusion is that people just don't want to do what is needed to win. That is the anti-premade argument broken down into its base form, and quite frankly, seems ridiculous.
That's the kind of logic I expect from someone who would defend premades, because he is profiting from that layout.

deedeede's Avatar


deedeede
05.27.2013 , 06:05 AM | #2455
[QUOTE=Zhaker;6359710]So where did I say I want to fight only pug again?

The reason why I am against PuG vs PuG cause it'll do a few stupid things:

- Premade will just simple queue solo and time it so that they group up.
- PuG vs PuG ends up being a herp derp stupid match, its just DM and nothing else.

you are right only for the first reason, in my own experience best pvpers come from pugs, abillity to predict own team same time as opponent team make them the best;

we live modern, busy days, most people pug, even and those that do not pvp unless they have a team of friends online same time, they still pug, since their group isn't full

PoliteAssasin's Avatar


PoliteAssasin
05.27.2013 , 06:13 AM | #2456
[QUOTE=deedeede;6359798]
Quote: Originally Posted by Zhaker View Post
So where did I say I want to fight only pug again?

The reason why I am against PuG vs PuG cause it'll do a few stupid things:

- Premade will just simple queue solo and time it so that they group up.
- PuG vs PuG ends up being a herp derp stupid match, its just DM and nothing else.

you are right only for the first reason, in my own experience best pvpers come from pugs, abillity to predict own team same time as opponent team make them the best;

we live modern busy day, most people pug, even and those that do not pvp unless they have a team of friends online same time, they still pug, since their group isn't full
I agree. I never used to premade because I used to see it as a crutch, or at least I would see others use it as one. Pugging was all I would do, and while it was more difficult to work with random players, as you say it makes you a better player because you have to not only be aware of what the enemy team could possibly do, but your pugs as well. I think it helps a player to increase awareness because you can't always rely on the pugs during matches, sometimes you end up being the only one trying to do what different roles would in a premade. And that will only make you better.
D E M A V E N D O B E R Y N

Kovaos's Avatar


Kovaos
05.27.2013 , 04:21 PM | #2457
The issue is when you keep going against the same premade. I've just about had it with this game. There just isn't enough people queueing. I disagree with the comments that pugs are herp de derp type match. I have a family and might only be online for a match or two at a time. I'm at the end of my patience for this game.
"my friend said he got a pack of level 50 armor and all i got was level 47 pants."

Zhaker's Avatar


Zhaker
05.27.2013 , 05:11 PM | #2458
When you do OPS can you be casual and **** around? If you are skilled and/or outgear the damn content.

When you do PvP can you be casual? Yes but you should be TRYING TO WIN.

When you do Dailies do you go half assed? Up to you, if you want to spend hours on a daily that can be done fast and efficient. Which would you prefer?

I'm tired of these "I dont have enough time" BS. Its like saying that it gives you the right to be half assed when you say that. Thats what pisses me off. Its why Premade is increasing. If people werent half assed, then Premades wont be so dominate because it only yields a slight advantage. Its not advantage enough to claim otherwise.

If I have to play with PuGs at least he courtesy is to not give up when the chips are down and fight hard and try and win.

EDIT:

Dont give me BS about PuGs ISNT HERP DERP, when I see PuG try and set up passes, communicate, and **** thats good tactics.

When I see PuG say nothing go in the middle and zerg thats HERP DERP ****. 90% of those matches are the latter. The 10% are those waiting for friends to get onto a premade.

If you want to enjoy your experience then you need to learn the damn tactics. Nobody wants to premade with a guy that wont put *********** effort in.

Kontraz's Avatar


Kontraz
05.27.2013 , 05:43 PM | #2459
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
That's the kind of logic I expect from someone who would defend premades, because he is profiting from that layout.
No, I use this kind of logic because it is actual formal logic. If you are using anything other than that (with the given premises that were suggested by those who wish premades removed) then you are, by definition, illogical.

Let me spell it out more simplistically as a proof (for clarification a proof =/= absolute proof, it simply maintains that the logic is valid, and the conclusion is true if the premises are true).

terms:
A=possession of pre made, B = ability to win, C = desire
If and only if you have a pre made, you will win:
A -> B
Which means the reverse is also true (If you don't have a pre made, you will not win)
~A -> ~B
What I want is to not have a pre made
C = ~A
therefore What I want is to not have a premade which means I will not win
C =~A-> ~B
Since not having a premade leads to not winning, then ultimately...

C=~B
"I have a desire to not have the ability to win"

That is formal logic. You can argue against it if you wish, but it is both sound and valid. Whether or not is true depends on two premises - "You need a premade to win" and "I do not want to have a premade". If BOTH of those are true (which, gathered from the arguments presented, is the belief of those against premades) then the LOGICAL conclusion is that you do not want to do what is needed to win.

Kovaos's Avatar


Kovaos
05.27.2013 , 10:53 PM | #2460
Quote: Originally Posted by Zhaker View Post
When you do OPS can you be casual and **** around? If you are skilled and/or outgear the damn content.

When you do PvP can you be casual? Yes but you should be TRYING TO WIN.

When you do Dailies do you go half assed? Up to you, if you want to spend hours on a daily that can be done fast and efficient. Which would you prefer?

I'm tired of these "I dont have enough time" BS. Its like saying that it gives you the right to be half assed when you say that. Thats what pisses me off. Its why Premade is increasing. If people werent half assed, then Premades wont be so dominate because it only yields a slight advantage. Its not advantage enough to claim otherwise.

If I have to play with PuGs at least he courtesy is to not give up when the chips are down and fight hard and try and win.

EDIT:

Dont give me BS about PuGs ISNT HERP DERP, when I see PuG try and set up passes, communicate, and **** thats good tactics.

When I see PuG say nothing go in the middle and zerg thats HERP DERP ****. 90% of those matches are the latter. The 10% are those waiting for friends to get onto a premade.

If you want to enjoy your experience then you need to learn the damn tactics. Nobody wants to premade with a guy that wont put *********** effort in.
1. When I pvp I give it my best everything and don't leave WZs early.

2. I can't join any premades because I'm a father of two and a husband. Not having time is a legitimate reason for not being able to join a premade. Believe it or not some of us have real world responsibilities that come first. I can solo queue and give it my best, which is probably better than you with your premade anyway. Nobody queues to lose smart guy.

3. I don't know where you got the idea we don't know the "tactics." You sound like the type raging in gen chat when the others are actually carrying you. If you're on Pot5 chances are I've carried you at some point.
"my friend said he got a pack of level 50 armor and all i got was level 47 pants."