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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
03.28.2013 , 04:50 PM | #2271
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlanon View Post
No. People who queue together do so because they are friends who enjoy playing together in a MULTIPLAYER game.

If it's so easy win mode in a group, why such opposition to doing it?

1 Make friends
2 Group up
3 Communicate

Anyone who whines about premades ruining warzones has trouble with one or more of those things. (They probably have trouble with those in real life too). It is not a game issue. It is a personal issue. Bioware cannot fix your life. There is no solution except L2P.

I can't believe this thread is still going on.
I don't have an issue with 4 friends playing together in an MMO game. But come on, lately I have seen tons of 8man teams from the same guild on my server. The game should never put more than 4 people from the same ops group on one team in a regular game.

There is a line between playing with friends for fun and farming regular warzones for commendations with an 8man ranked-geared team. The latter is on the far side of the line.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

DarkPharohEclip's Avatar


DarkPharohEclip
03.28.2013 , 05:57 PM | #2272
Yea right, I was in a half assed premade the other night and lost almost every match, then when I solo qued I started going on a winning streak. Sometimes pre-mades actually cause you to lose matches, especially if you got one bad player or two in the mix. I don't run with pre mades all the time to "roll pugs" , I usually do it because guildies want to go along with somebody, and me being that friendly guildie I join/invite to the group.

DarkPharohEclip's Avatar


DarkPharohEclip
03.28.2013 , 06:02 PM | #2273
What will help this problem is if they just added a voip system IN game... People will sit here and say "oh you can just use vent" well I have and use vent, but what about the 4 other people in the group or 6 other people in the group that aren't in your vent...
Sick and tired of going into warzones with people that are uncoordinated, I don't have time to tell every warzone group to join my vent, and most of them wouldn't anyhow because it is a hassle for them to set it up right before a warzone.

Just add an in game system, this will help alot of people out with their "pre made" issues. I don't personally have an issue with them, and most of the time I would prefer one, but then while we are talking in vent there are like 4-6 other people not in our vent so they don't know what we are talking about.

mulzii's Avatar


mulzii
03.28.2013 , 06:18 PM | #2274
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlanon View Post
No. People who queue together do so because they are friends who enjoy playing together in a MULTIPLAYER game.

If it's so easy win mode in a group, why such opposition to doing it?

1 Make friends
2 Group up
3 Communicate

Anyone who whines about premades ruining warzones has trouble with one or more of those things. (They probably have trouble with those in real life too). It is not a game issue. It is a personal issue. Bioware cannot fix your life. There is no solution except L2P.

I can't believe this thread is still going on.
You can tell folks to make 4 friends and stomp the normal wz queue, but why do you not make 4 more friends and join the ranked queue as an 8man premade? Isnt that what ranked was developed for? OR does having 4 IRL friends make you feel like you win at real life and anyone <4 or >4 are justReal life losers? People who use this argument, yet cannot make 4 more friends themselves and played ranked are just hypocrits. They WANT to stomp pugs. They want to laugh in vent, and use the advantages of out-of-game communication pugs don't have to stomp and laugh and get their easy comms.

Get 4 more folks and join ranked, or is it too hard for you? The big-bad 8-man premades touch you in naughty places and bruise your ego, stomping all over you? Kinda the same argument the pugs are making against the premades in the normal queue, isnt it? Perhaps its a l2p issue for YOU. L2P in a 8man ranked premade and be competitive rather than pug stomping in the normal queue.

/rant

sari_ttb's Avatar


sari_ttb
03.28.2013 , 06:50 PM | #2275
I kinda only run in premade groups and getting kinda bored. We want to face other premade teams and really get good matches and stuff but its close to impossible. Whenever we que for ranked warzone it can literally take more then 1 hour to get a match. So in the end we just que up normal and play vs pugs. And truth be told steamrolling pugs is fun for 1 a 2 days, but after that it gets really boring and its no fun for pug either off course.

Solution.. put some greater rewards on ranked warzones that are REALLY worth it. In combination with cross-server pvp the que times would go down.

Unless something along those gets done u will probably see fewer premade groups vs pug matches. But untill then... waiting an hour for a ranked warzone to popup is not an option. So sorry

SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
03.28.2013 , 07:27 PM | #2276
Wow, this thread is still alive? I bet Bioware wishes it was in the PTS forum, so they could just delete it and pretend there wasn't any issue.


Quote: Originally Posted by mulzii View Post
People who use this argument, yet cannot make 4 more friends themselves and played ranked are just hypocrits. They WANT to stomp pugs. They want to laugh in vent, and use the advantages of out-of-game communication pugs don't have to stomp and laugh and get their easy comms.
Lol, there are certainly A Lot of 4man premades in pvp only guilds on The Harbinger on the republic faction that pugstomp on a daily basis, yet have no team rankings, meaning they've never done 10 ranked matches.

Truth is, they're afraid of getting owned by the dominant imp/pub guilds that do ranked, so they feel more comfortable pugstomping, then patting themselves on the back about how good they think they are, "lol, did you see how hard I smashed that 13k sorc for on my augged min-maxed smasher! I'm so good!" Bioware recognizes this demographic, so their matchmaking system usually matches a 4man premade with another 4man premade (sometimes the same guild, so that all 8 are in voice chat), then they're matched against 8 undergeared/pve geared solo queuers. Why? Because this leads to a more enjoyable experience for the premades...so that they can continue thinking that they're actually good and keep spending money on the cartel market.

People who make an effort to join a guild or form a group with other random people, then queue up for pvp/ops/fps/etc. are more reliable for Bioware, in that they're more serious/invested in the game and thus more profit. Random people, some subs, some f2p, who are still unguilded, refuse to join a guild or group, aren't seen as reliable profit. If you refuse to group with other people, Bioware doesn't value you as important or significant in any meaningful way, simple as that. I personally think it's shortsighted to neglect customers who solo the game and that a better matchmaking system would be better for everyone, but it is what it is and those are the realities here.

As for being unable to get the weekly done due to lack of wins, either put in a ton of time in the solo queue or spend a little time to ask people if they want to group, in gen chat, then queue up and get wins faster. If you face off against a pugstomping premade, quit the match, wait a minute or two, then requeue, you'll then be put into separate queue matches, so you probably won't face off against them again.

Is the current system garbage? yes. Is it unfair? absolutely. Are there ways around it? yes, form your own groups.

To be clear, there's a difference between grouping with some random people you may not even talk to during the match and grouping with some random people, then using vent or some voice communication to coordinate and pugstomp. If you don't like pugstomping and are reluctant to form a group because of that, then just group with some random people, don't use voice chat, then just play the game as if you're still in solo queue. It's virtually the same as solo queue, but the main difference here is that you're more likely to win matches than if you're actual solo queue because the garbage matchmaking system will likely put you up against undergeared solo queuers.

So yeah, matchmaking system is garbage Some guilds are full of people who are afraid to do ranked, and feel like tough guys from pugstomping and some people genuinely just like playing with friends/their guild. Either way, there shouldn't be a separate queue just for groups for 2 reasons:

1. Queue times could take hours to find a 2man to match with two other 3mans, as well as all the different combos, so that would lead to a terrible experience for people who want to group with their friends, so they'd unsub, bioware would lose profit, and put out even more cartel updates and less content as a result.

2. The solo queue would end up being gamed like it is now, where solo queuers would still time their queues together to get into the same matches, just like how certain guilds get all 8 into a single match. So Even With solo only queue, there would inevitably still be multiple guild members in a match pugstomping.


With that said, the best possible solutation is honestly to match people up based on basic regular wz wins, pugstomping guilds would have the most, so they'd get matched up against each other or other pugstomping guilds. Solo queuers with the fewest wins would also be matched up against each other. For people with few wins, but are fresh 50s in a pugstomping guild, make the match based on whoever has the highest wins. So if you have 2 guys with 2,000 wins and 1 guy with 50 wins, then you're automatically placed into the 2,000 win category and matched accordingly. As wins increased, you'd keep moving up. Having a minimum/maximum range would help with queue times, i.e., system has 7 people with 1,000 wins, can't find another, grabs a person with 1200 wins or 800 wins.


All the other suggestions are too easily gamed, i.e., gear level, valor ranking, ranked pvp ranking, etc., but if you use number of wins, that's probably the best estimate of performance. Even if people tried to game the system by pugstomping, but quitting right before they won to keep their wins low, then cool, they just wasted 10-20mins of their time and have nothing to show for it but for super huge epeen stroking for going the extra mile to pugstomp.


Lastly, and most importantly, it's highly unlikely that the developers solo queue (unless they're testing or tracking somebody), they likely group with each other or their own guilds, so why exactly would they remove something that they themselves use, even if they themselves are pugstompers?

So given that fact, solo only queue will never happen, but it is possible that they could redesign the matchmaking system to not suck as much as it does now.

Anyway, continue aruging on people, as Bioware keeps denying this thread's existence. Everybody wins!
Once you're in the hole, what's a few more feet?

DarkPharohEclip's Avatar


DarkPharohEclip
03.28.2013 , 10:51 PM | #2277
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
Wow, this thread is still alive? I bet Bioware wishes it was in the PTS forum, so they could just delete it and pretend there wasn't any issue.



That's exactly what they did to my anti bolster and anti crit nerf threads. Just deleted them and pretended it wasn't an issue.

iHernyx's Avatar


iHernyx
03.30.2013 , 02:29 AM | #2278
You premade lovers are acting like if you were to be denied the possibility to ever queue as a group, that's not it. What we want is separate queues for solo queues and group queues, SEPARATE QUEUES and not removing the queue group feature for everyone. This way you will still be able to queue with your beloved friends and play as a group. But you gotta REALIZE that PUGs are barely as organized as a premade, like I said before I knew someone would come in and say MAKE FRIENDS AND QUEUE AS GROUP and I quote myself 'Easier said than done'. I actually feel really sorry for those people that can only play 2 to 3 hours a day and are very casual players being thrown into a match against a premade and getting roflstomped like if they were training dummies.

Premades will always have a HUGE advantage vs Pugs. Especially since most of the premades have communication, -skill-, ability to choose the composition of your premade (I've been running into premades of 3 heals and 1 tank or 2 heals 2 tanks one guardin each healer) and they become immortal because pugs dont attack healers even after you tell them several times and healers will call out that they're being attacked and will automatically get focus healed by the other 2 heals, TTK becomes so long that pugs end up raped by the rest of the team. Also gear because if you are used to make premades you're most likely to win most of the matches and you end up getting more comms and improving your gear whereas pugs will only get 50 to 80 comms per loss.

So yeah.. Premades >>>> PUGS and it's way too unfair as it is.

TonyDragonflame's Avatar


TonyDragonflame
03.30.2013 , 05:22 AM | #2279
Quote: Originally Posted by SomeJagoff View Post
Lastly, and most importantly, it's highly unlikely that the developers solo queue (unless they're testing or tracking somebody), they likely group with each other or their own guilds, so why exactly would they remove something that they themselves use, even if they themselves are pugstompers?
Hope all these developers lose their job and become bankrupts when game finally fails, cuz they stand their own interest higher than interest of paying customers. ROI of game looks like already fail.

Look to population of pure PvP servers - trend is down to decreased population.
May the Force be with you!
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Brannicus's Avatar


Brannicus
03.30.2013 , 07:02 AM | #2280
Premades need their own queue. Seriously.

Also, queues MUST be cross server, period.