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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

V-Serp's Avatar


V-Serp
01.16.2013 , 01:27 PM | #2071
Quote: Originally Posted by spacemonkey View Post
I like the randomness of PUG's. Sometimes you have to carry the team, other times people know what their doing, sometimes we even get match against an equally balanced team and have to fight hard for the win or lose by a small margin, becuase thats challenging.

You could even say playing PUG's opens you to meeting and befriending even more people than just roflstomping with your guild.

So why would I ever want to play in a pre-made outside ranked warzones?

Unless I wanted the opposite of challenge, competivness and just wanted a easy run.
Well said. Those hard fought PUG vs PUG matches really are the best, especially in a game like huttball. It's like playing a pickup football game vs. an organized one. And also I agree on going after teammates, that's the fun part.

In HS I played QB for our football team. I had to have organized games and practices of course. But I also played a lot of pickup games, every day there was likely to be one and it was fun getting a short game in during lunch period or another off period. Well one time one of my WRs came by and we were on the same team. We ran a couple of plays, got easy scores, and everyone else then insisted we weren't allowed on the same team. And that was fine with us, we went right at each other on opposite sides the rest of the game and everyone else had more fun that way. It would have been pointless to continue pretty much owning for free, we might as well have just been at practice without a defense. It's just a different game.

Really I still don't understand how any premade can really have fun going against PUGs or even having PUGs on their team. Premades are all about organization and executing a set gameplan. PUGs are all about not having a real gameplan and knowing tendencies to begin with, but rather figuring things out on the fly. The premades don't have to do that so they have a huge advantage already and it's a different game. The PUGs do and have to work without even having tools in place that they won't be able to overcome against competent premades.

I'm guessing the premade vs PUG win rate is about 90-10. Pug vs pug it's going to be 50-50.

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
01.16.2013 , 01:36 PM | #2072
Quote: Originally Posted by UncelSam View Post
Theres noting wrong with running WZs with your friends/guildies etc. Just dont go facing PUGs when you are premade team, run against other Premades.
That's not up to the premade it's up to BW's match making.

And FYI to most posters here "premades" is used improperly for most "groups" are just random friends and not balanced perfectly which what a premade technically is ment to mean.

So people need to think before they push the responsibility on to others because they choose not to do something that the others are. Yell at BIOWARE not people using the game they way it was designed to be played.
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
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sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
01.16.2013 , 01:41 PM | #2073
Quote: Originally Posted by V-Serp View Post
....
This is a very good post Serp. Only thing i disagree with is your last sentence. I believe this is true for the serious pvp guilds, but more than 50% of "premades" are, in my opinion, nothing else than 4 man pugs with 4 friends in them, no voice comms no elaborate tactics no anything. Most people probably don't even realize they are playing with / against a premade in those situations. This is why i believe we need matchmaking, not segregated queues.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
01.16.2013 , 01:49 PM | #2074
Quote: Originally Posted by V-Serp View Post
Really I still don't understand how any premade can really have fun going against PUGs or even having PUGs on their team. Premades are all about organization and executing a set gameplan. PUGs are all about not having a real gameplan and knowing tendencies to begin with, but rather figuring things out on the fly. The premades don't have to do that so they have a huge advantage already and it's a different game. The PUGs do and have to work without even having tools in place that they won't be able to overcome against competent premades.

I'm guessing the premade vs PUG win rate is about 90-10. Pug vs pug it's going to be 50-50.
We still have fun. If you get a team that wont quit the match the instant they lose 2 points in nc/cw or a door right away in vs or a quick score in huttball then maybe things would be more interesting. I also like your reasoning behind pugs not having a game plan, that sums up pugs pretty well.

spacemonkey's Avatar


spacemonkey
01.16.2013 , 02:21 PM | #2075
Quote: Originally Posted by sanchito View Post
This is a very good post Serp. Only thing i disagree with is your last sentence. I believe this is true for the serious pvp guilds, but more than 50% of "premades" are, in my opinion, nothing else than 4 man pugs with 4 friends in them, no voice comms no elaborate tactics no anything. Most people probably don't even realize they are playing with / against a premade in those situations. This is why i believe we need matchmaking, not segregated queues.
I agree with you assessment, most of the pre-mades really are just a few mates playing together. When most of us are talking about "Pre-mades" we're all talking about those 2-4 well known PvP Guilds on our servers, PvP guilds that do nothing but run pre-mades out of rank, all on voice, all min/maxed, never without their healers. Farming PUG's for comms, valor and stabillizers. It's a tiny little group of people who are quite literally destroying PvP in the long run for short term gains, by putting lowbies and newly minted 50's off of PvP for good.

For a start Bioware needs to take away the single biggest advantage these "pre-mades" have, which is voice/mumble. That means Bioware must integrate voice chat into their game, so PUG's can at least talk to each other.

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
01.16.2013 , 02:25 PM | #2076
Has anyone ever thought about making a default strategy per warzone for PUGs? Would have to keep it simple and generic due to the random makeup along with expecting people to win an even fight, but just to give them a shot at holding at least one part of a game.

I just think if there was a cookie cutter, you still wouldn't win against an adaptive premade, but you would at least stand a chance to get medals, for those of you who seem to struggle.

paul_preib's Avatar


paul_preib
01.16.2013 , 03:08 PM | #2077
Quote: Originally Posted by Technohic View Post
Has anyone ever thought about making a default strategy per warzone for PUGs? Would have to keep it simple and generic due to the random makeup along with expecting people to win an even fight, but just to give them a shot at holding at least one part of a game.

I just think if there was a cookie cutter, you still wouldn't win against an adaptive premade, but you would at least stand a chance to get medals, for those of you who seem to struggle.
Well certain ones strategies hold basically consistent among pugs

Alderaan-- 2 to natural turret rest mid, one possible right-stall/intercept who can win a 1v1 if they only send one.

Novarre-- 1-2 to the north turret, rest mid. Sometimes send 3 north 2 of which try and charge the opposite team's northern.

Huttball-- too fluid strategies to reliant on specific team makeup, but basically try and control mid and advance the ball is as good as you can get here.

VS-- Stealth try X side rest Y, sometimes try to 4/4 or 5/3 for an advantage.

Hypergates-- Snag a node control mid, stealth possibly try to last second cap the other node.


Really I'd say 75-80% of PuG warzones fall under the above basic setups.
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Cylerian-- Scoundrel Kyrellian-- Sniper
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dufox's Avatar


dufox
01.16.2013 , 06:18 PM | #2078
Quote: Originally Posted by sanchito View Post
This is a very good post Serp. Only thing i disagree with is your last sentence. I believe this is true for the serious pvp guilds, but more than 50% of "premades" are, in my opinion, nothing else than 4 man pugs with 4 friends in them, no voice comms no elaborate tactics no anything. Most people probably don't even realize they are playing with / against a premade in those situations. This is why i believe we need matchmaking, not segregated queues.

that right there is so true.

(the rest of this isnt really a response to my quote)
even with that said all you need is practice to be good at warzones. simple things like for ex: dont wait for people to call incs before u respond, you can tell where ur team is and where the enemy is from your very own mini map and ops list. and always have your camera facing towards the objective. get ahead of the ball, when this class does a certain thing you respond a certain way.

all of the little "do's and donts" of pvp that you learn as you go.

you do not need vent or twinks or several flavor of the months to compete with other people that use them.

if your pug is noob then carry your team, if you cant then try... its a challenge and you could be surprised by what happens.
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Yaharuquiel's Avatar


Yaharuquiel
01.16.2013 , 08:41 PM | #2079
I just finished playing a non-ranked warzone.

In my quest to finish my Weekly, I've logged on three times today to see if I can make up the 7 wins I needed. Know why I couldn't? Because every game I got into, save one, was made up of premade-Guild Super Sith.

I have recruit armor and I'm sure they were all smiling with their Cheetoh-stained teeth, the only thing visible in their mancaves besides their screens. They roll up with their EWH armor and mow me and my team down.

Forget being discouraged about getting my Weekly done in time, I'm discouraged from even getting better armor at this point. Why would I want to do to some other recruit-armored Sith what I'm getting right now? Not fair to them, and it's certainly not fair to me.

Another Tuesday will come and go, and I'm sure Bioware will not fix their matchmaking.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.17.2013 , 09:28 AM | #2080
Quote: Originally Posted by V-Serp View Post
Well said. Those hard fought PUG vs PUG matches really are the best, especially in a game like huttball. It's like playing a pickup football game vs. an organized one. And also I agree on going after teammates, that's the fun part.

In HS I played QB for our football team. I had to have organized games and practices of course. But I also played a lot of pickup games, every day there was likely to be one and it was fun getting a short game in during lunch period or another off period. Well one time one of my WRs came by and we were on the same team. We ran a couple of plays, got easy scores, and everyone else then insisted we weren't allowed on the same team. And that was fine with us, we went right at each other on opposite sides the rest of the game and everyone else had more fun that way. It would have been pointless to continue pretty much owning for free, we might as well have just been at practice without a defense. It's just a different game.

Really I still don't understand how any premade can really have fun going against PUGs or even having PUGs on their team. Premades are all about organization and executing a set gameplan. PUGs are all about not having a real gameplan and knowing tendencies to begin with, but rather figuring things out on the fly. The premades don't have to do that so they have a huge advantage already and it's a different game. The PUGs do and have to work without even having tools in place that they won't be able to overcome against competent premades.

I'm guessing the premade vs PUG win rate is about 90-10. Pug vs pug it's going to be 50-50.
I don't premade to have competitive games against full PuG teams, many of whom are undergeared. I premade to have a fighting chance against the Imp premades (and also cause I like playing with my guildies). I'm certainly not min-maxed, and we don't always have a healer, but it helps immensely to have teammates you know you can trust going in (you would have done pickup games with your friends surely), and it can provide a pretty good counter to those premades on the other side. To me it's the only logical response to being slapped down by imp premades (or pub premades if you're on the imp side).

Fight fire with fire. You might still get outplayed. You'll often get out played. Or you can have a very competitive game against a team that is half made up of some of the best PVPers on the server instead of getting rolled.

And while I admit I'm not considering the other people queuing primarily, I like to think that if I can save 4 PUGs from getting rolled by an Imp premade it couldn't have been all bad either.
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