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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Rilok_Singz's Avatar


Rilok_Singz
12.30.2012 , 10:33 AM | #1971
Quote: Originally Posted by Z-ToXiN View Post
At first, I dismissed this thread as unworthy of attention. Then, I was going to type up a long and eloquent response to the idea that Premades are ruining normal WZs.

But since a picture is worth a thousand words, my thoughts on the original point of this thread shall be expressed in a visual manner:
http://i.imgur.com/UnFnF.gif
^lol'd - My thoughts exactly.
S h a d o w R i l o k | A s s a s s i n R l o k
S t r i f e | C l i c k e r s


Refer link - http://www.swtor.com/r/6DZ2sg

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
12.30.2012 , 12:55 PM | #1972
Quote: Originally Posted by sauerkraut View Post
So let me get this strate. Premades who only wanna play against PUGs should be revarded for their cowardness, PUGs should not have the right to decide if they wanna play against Premades. Brilliant Dude just brilliant.
I couldn't have said it better. +1 Pugs should have the ability / option to play against other pugs instead of getting constantly steamrolled by premades.
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

Jaruslothran's Avatar


Jaruslothran
12.30.2012 , 02:19 PM | #1973
I have played MMO's for more than 10 years now. So, please understand that what I say is coming from plenty of experience with PVP across many games.

Separating the queues for premades and PUG's is not only viable, it is frankly the best thing a game with PVP can do.

First of all, most of your player base is NOT going to be a premade. As a business, you do not want to alienate the vast majority of your clientele for the preferences of the vast minority.

Secondly, I personally find it fun when I have to fight it out against my friends, when they show up on the other side from a random queue. We have often had quite the laugh about our attempts to hunt each other down on the battlefield. Frankly, playing against good players who just happen to be my friends is a great way to get feedback on technique. I love it.

Lastly, look at games like Guild Wars 2. They offer quite a bit of variety for everybody. You can do random queues, arena's where guilds can compete, and world vs. world... a vast open area of combat where you can siege enemy castles and take territory for server-wide bonuses for all.

We already have a system in place for the guild vs. guild queues. One of the reasons it is not successful, I believe, is because premade groups have a choice not to use it. Frankly, it is human nature to choose the easiest route. Either that is the most imbalanced class or the easiest opponent. We all know how easily a well coordinated group on voice can stomp a PUG group. This would work best, if they do manage to get their cross-server functionality working. So this part is partially Bioware's fault, as they dropped the ball here...well... and open world in Illum too.. but that is another issue.

The bottom line is that you have to cater to your player base. Driving people out of PVP, because they get frustrated by constantly getting rolled by premade groups is NOT going to help anybody. PVP guilds will miss the chance to spot potential new talent, because that new talent no longer queues up, and queue times will grow longer and longer as the population dwindles. I have seen it in too many games.

Arguing that having premades stomp PUGS is ok,.. that is slitting your own throat,... slowly. You are killing the game you love, and you don't even know it... or just refuse to see it.

Sorry for what is probably a TON of spelling and other errors,.. just woke up

P.s. I am in 2 PVP guilds,.. so I am not just raging against those evil PVP guilds,.. I want to see the game thrive.

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
12.30.2012 , 07:46 PM | #1974
Quote: Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
I have played MMO's for more than 10 years now. So, please understand that what I say is coming from plenty of experience with PVP across many games.

Separating the queues for premades and PUG's is not only viable, it is frankly the best thing a game with PVP can do.

First of all, most of your player base is NOT going to be a premade. As a business, you do not want to alienate the vast majority of your clientele for the preferences of the vast minority.

Secondly, I personally find it fun when I have to fight it out against my friends, when they show up on the other side from a random queue. We have often had quite the laugh about our attempts to hunt each other down on the battlefield. Frankly, playing against good players who just happen to be my friends is a great way to get feedback on technique. I love it.

Lastly, look at games like Guild Wars 2. They offer quite a bit of variety for everybody. You can do random queues, arena's where guilds can compete, and world vs. world... a vast open area of combat where you can siege enemy castles and take territory for server-wide bonuses for all.

We already have a system in place for the guild vs. guild queues. One of the reasons it is not successful, I believe, is because premade groups have a choice not to use it. Frankly, it is human nature to choose the easiest route. Either that is the most imbalanced class or the easiest opponent. We all know how easily a well coordinated group on voice can stomp a PUG group. This would work best, if they do manage to get their cross-server functionality working. So this part is partially Bioware's fault, as they dropped the ball here...well... and open world in Illum too.. but that is another issue.

The bottom line is that you have to cater to your player base. Driving people out of PVP, because they get frustrated by constantly getting rolled by premade groups is NOT going to help anybody. PVP guilds will miss the chance to spot potential new talent, because that new talent no longer queues up, and queue times will grow longer and longer as the population dwindles. I have seen it in too many games.

Arguing that having premades stomp PUGS is ok,.. that is slitting your own throat,... slowly. You are killing the game you love, and you don't even know it... or just refuse to see it.

Sorry for what is probably a TON of spelling and other errors,.. just woke up

P.s. I am in 2 PVP guilds,.. so I am not just raging against those evil PVP guilds,.. I want to see the game thrive.
Thank you,most of us have been touting the same argument but still BW is not either listening / reading or they simply do not care. they need cross server pvp ques and they need to seperate the premades from the pugs. this game is trying to self destruct with the really strange ideas flowing from BW. I love this game but its really strage how combative they are towards making really bad decisions.
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

HuaRya's Avatar


HuaRya
12.31.2012 , 12:37 AM | #1975
So tonight my server Jedi Covenant was actually FULL status.

I thought this might be a good time to complete my weekly as I had 7/9 won.

Repeatedly match after match my teams were just filler for premades to play. Twelve matches later I'm at 8/9 it was almost surreal to play another PUG team.

HaLeX's Avatar


HaLeX
12.31.2012 , 01:32 AM | #1976
""Get better at PvP, make some friends (forever alone) and queue with them. This is how you counter premade teams.""

This argument keeps coming up and its not a valid argument. I do premades but only when I have alot of time to spare. Usually I'm just jumping on for 30 mins and then moving on to something else, or leveling an alt. We all have different life circumstances and you fail to recognise that fact. If I have 2-4 hours to kill of course I'll be in a premade, but its the time constraints and not the lack of "friends" that puts me in pugs a majority of the time.

sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
12.31.2012 , 05:27 AM | #1977
Quote: Originally Posted by P-Chan View Post
...
1) Implement some kind of Item Level for all gear (PvP AND PvE) (This can be used to better match players in PvP because matchmaking through Valor would be ridiculous.)
...
Problem with matching by gear is that the heroes will inevitably queue in pve gear and switch to pvp gear once the wz starts. that's why i believe matching by valor would be better, albeit far from perfect. If someone comes up with a better system i'm all for it

Kattla's Avatar


Kattla
12.31.2012 , 08:04 AM | #1978
Quote: Originally Posted by sanchito View Post
Problem with matching by gear is that the heroes will inevitably queue in pve gear and switch to pvp gear once the wz starts. that's why i believe matching by valor would be better, albeit far from perfect. If someone comes up with a better system i'm all for it
Matching by medals earned may work better then matching by valor , if any matching at all. Valor just means one played a lot of warzones, and/or exploited Ilum when they could, Medals reflects a bit more on how one have performed.
Medals earned divided by matches played could generate a number used for matchmaking.

Or:
Premade -> Goes to ranked queue (need to remove the 8 ppl requirement)
Solo -> Normal queue.
(I wonder how many doing premade now would switch to solo if they risk a bit of challenge )

Or:
Cross faction queue , doesn't fully solve the "problem", but may help against faction imbalanced servers.

sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
12.31.2012 , 08:41 AM | #1979
Quote: Originally Posted by Kattla View Post
Matching by medals earned may work better then matching by valor , if any matching at all. Valor just means one played a lot of warzones, and/or exploited Ilum when they could, Medals reflects a bit more on how one have performed.
Medals earned divided by matches played could generate a number used for matchmaking.

Or:
Premade -> Goes to ranked queue (need to remove the 8 ppl requirement)
Solo -> Normal queue.
(I wonder how many doing premade now would switch to solo if they risk a bit of challenge )

Or:
Cross faction queue , doesn't fully solve the "problem", but may help against faction imbalanced servers.
Medals earned /games played is a pretty good idea actually. I don't like splitting the queues just because i don't think it will fix the problem, which is good, experienced, geared players on one side and not on the other.

I've gotten stomped while grouped with a 4 man premade several times, and i've been in pure pugs where only very good premades would have had a chance (first one happens way more often unfortunately). I believe the majority of premades are not that much better than some random pugs, it's just a few friends queueing together, without any cares about composition, tactics etc. Then there's the serious pvp guilds that can't get a ranked match for whatever reason, and they utterly dominate, because they are really really good, which makes for very unfun games.

Also, i'd be surprised if the good premades wouldn't rather go against a pug full of geared warlords or whatever then a bunch of recruits.

P-Chan's Avatar


P-Chan
12.31.2012 , 09:42 AM | #1980
Quote: Originally Posted by sanchito View Post
Problem with matching by gear is that the heroes will inevitably queue in pve gear and switch to pvp gear once the wz starts. that's why i believe matching by valor would be better, albeit far from perfect. If someone comes up with a better system i'm all for it
But then you get someone like me, who PvPd HARD before 1.2 and a little lately... I have Valor Rank 75, and Im in Recruit/Champ/Cent/and some BM gear. So Valor wouldn't be a good way either. They could make it so everything gave you a "rating" so that everything was LIKE RWZs... and mix THAT with Gear and Valor. IDK... But I dont think Valor would work...