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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
12.27.2012 , 10:41 PM | #1921
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
Do you ave any idea how long the queues might be if you have to wait for a tank or a healer?

Why should the healers on the opposing side not get to PvP if there are none on your side?

I solo queue and PUG 90% of my matches and I have gotten rolled by premades. It happens, but by the same token, I have been grouped with a premade and have done the rolling.

I have also been in PUGs where we destroyed premades. The secret to that success?

Communication and experience. People actually understood what the objectives of the WZ were and worked towards accomplishing them. They also, and I know that this must come as a shock to some, we used the OPs chat to call incomings and other information that is useful to insure a win. We worked to support one another and not just kill chase.

I've seen too many players leave a node to chase someone down and then have that node get ninja capped.

For everyone claiming that fighting premades suck, they're right, they do sometimes. Until of course, you're on the premades side and winning your matches.
So basicaly your fighting to keep things as is so the Premades have there fodder (Pug Players), because you know if there was a PUG only option the majority of people would choose that option... It's time Bioware concedes to the majority instead of the minorty, Premades have there option, it's called ranked PvP. Not my fault none of you guys want to use it.

Either Bioware gives casual players there option of PUG only or PvP Warzones are just going to get smaller and smaller and smaller.....

The whole argument to learn your class or force people to use ventrilo, mumble, etc.. to have a fighting chance is moot. The issue isint learning your class, the issue is PvP only guilds on PvE and PvE RP Servers who play 5-6 hours a day doing nothing but premades, they quikly get there eilte war hero armor and then cherry pick mods from various pieces to get the best stats. This is were the huge gap comes into play, you end up with 4+ extreamly well geared players who are on ventrilo, mumble or team speak who just face roll all the casual players...

I've yet to hear a solution other then "To Bad You Suck" or "Live with it because I play in a premade and want to keep getting easy wins"

Bioware made several mistakes with Warzones:
1) they didn't add a PUG only option
2) they didn't put fixed stats on PvP gear to keep it more balanced, so the players who do nothing but pvp get to pick and choose the best mods from all the gear to make the ultimate pvp set which makes the gear gap even bigger
3) no incentive for the "" Elite "" PvP'ers to go do ranked pvp

As for healers not getting to play in pvp? Come on, there's plenty of Healers that PvP, the problem is they usually all get put on one side, a lot of pvp warzones I've seen has had 2-3 healers on one side and 0 on the other. I rather wait another 20-30 mins for a warzone if it's going to be a fair fight then have quick pops where one side just rolls the other side in record time.
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
12.27.2012 , 11:55 PM | #1922
You know i'm all for change from my other posts but without cross server a solo only option will be gamed unless bw does it properly (they won't). I've gamed this before in past games and its nasty lol.

They need better premade matching with a top of 5-10min wait for another premade in q. This way if there really is only 1 premade q'n then they can still play with friends however if there are multiple (there almost always are at least a few on the populated servers) then they will play eachother.

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
12.28.2012 , 01:22 AM | #1923
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
So basicaly your fighting to keep things as is so the Premades have there fodder (Pug Players), because you know if there was a PUG only option the majority of people would choose that option... It's time Bioware concedes to the majority instead of the minorty, Premades have there option, it's called ranked PvP. Not my fault none of you guys want to use it.
You're assuming that I, or those that I group with, have time to do ranked. Usually there's only 2 or 3 of us that want to PvP at the same time with only a couple of hours to do so. It's why I mainly solo queue. Because, most of the time, my hours aren't the same as theirs.

Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
Either Bioware gives casual players there option of PUG only or PvP Warzones are just going to get smaller and smaller and smaller.....
You will still have inexperienced recruit geared players going up against experienced WH and EWH geared ones. Stompings will still happen.

Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
The whole argument to learn your class or force people to use ventrilo, mumble, etc.. to have a fighting chance is moot. The issue isint learning your class, the issue is PvP only guilds on PvE and PvE RP Servers who play 5-6 hours a day doing nothing but premades, they quikly get there eilte war hero armor and then cherry pick mods from various pieces to get the best stats. This is were the huge gap comes into play, you end up with 4+ extreamly well geared players who are on ventrilo, mumble or team speak who just face roll all the casual players...
I never said anything about using went, mumble, or any other voice chat. I did say that I have been in PUGs where we rolled the premade because we were using OPs chat though. In other words, typing. Also, I never said anything about learning your class, but I did mention understanding the WZs and what needed to be done to win.

As for the WH sets and modding them, if a person starts saving commendations after they hit 40, they will be able to purchase several pieces of WH gear to compliment their recruit gear. Now, even if they only do the PvP daily, and even if they lose every single match, they could still get 3-4 pieces of new WH gear a week.

If a person waits until their 50 to start PvPing and goes in with just recruit gear, well, they are going to get torn up even if there isn't a premade in the WZ.

Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
I've yet to hear a solution other then "To Bad You Suck" or "Live with it because I play in a premade and want to keep getting easy wins"

Bioware made several mistakes with Warzones:
1) they didn't add a PUG only option
2) they didn't put fixed stats on PvP gear to keep it more balanced, so the players who do nothing but pvp get to pick and choose the best mods from all the gear to make the ultimate pvp set which makes the gear gap even bigger
3) no incentive for the "" Elite "" PvP'ers to go do ranked pvp.
Most of the solutions that have been suggested have been poorly thought out as an alternative. Best one that I've read about is having system based on your valor level. But even that has major flaws.

1: That's only your opinion and there are no hard facts that it was actually a mistake. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean its broken.
2: Should BW limit the number of PvP matches that a person can play per week as well? I mean, if we want to keep things fair it's the only way to make certain that no one ever actually out gears anyone else. Crappy pvp model though and I doubt anyone would play.
3: I'll agree with you on that one though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
As for healers not getting to play in pvp? Come on, there's plenty of Healers that PvP, the problem is they usually all get put on one side, a lot of pvp warzones I've seen has had 2-3 healers on one side and 0 on the other. I rather wait another 20-30 mins for a warzone if it's going to be a fair fight then have quick pops where one side just rolls the other side in record time.
Yes, there are quite a few that PvP, but I was responding to the idea that was put forward of "we all get healers or no one does". In a Republic vs Empire match, what is going to happen if one side does have healers and the other doesn't? Have them sit and wait 30 minutes? Cross queue and have Imp healers on a Pub team?

Even if it was a same faction match, how are casual pvpers going to react when they have to wait 20-30 minutes to get into one because another healer didn't queue up? That will drive off players faster than dealing with an occasional premade for 10 minutes ever would. At least with the premade they would still get commendations.

P-Chan's Avatar


P-Chan
12.28.2012 , 07:12 AM | #1924
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
Even if it was a same faction match, how are casual pvpers going to react when they have to wait 20-30 minutes to get into one because another healer didn't queue up? That will drive off players faster than dealing with an occasional premade for 10 minutes ever would. At least with the premade they would still get commendations.
I beg to differ... There have been many times I have gone up against a premade, Done "everything right" (I.E. fought on node, targeted healer, And used Ops chat) and not gotten a single Comm. But maybe this IS my fault... I call Incs, place markers on healers, try to coordinate in ops chat, know my class, etc... Maybe Im doing it wrong?

The whole point most of us solo queuers are trying to make is that it shouldn't be MANDATORY to form a premade just to have a little fun. If you cant at least concede that point, then you just need to stop posting, cause you are completely one sided and wont get anywhere here.

Dratten's Avatar


Dratten
12.28.2012 , 07:18 AM | #1925
This is a mulitplayer game! They should encourage players to team up! If you want to play singleplayer you are most welcome but dont expect it to be better than teaming up with some friends or online player-friends.

Cmon guys.. This is common sense!

UncelSam's Avatar


UncelSam
12.28.2012 , 09:00 AM | #1926
Quote: Originally Posted by Dratten View Post
This is a mulitplayer game! They should encourage players to team up! If you want to play singleplayer you are most welcome but dont expect it to be better than teaming up with some friends or online player-friends.

Cmon guys.. This is common sense!
Why benefit and reward ppl for hiding in powerhealer teams? Wouldnt it be more locic to reward ppl who has the power to be selfmade warhero rather than depending on others likea leech?

Arlanon's Avatar


Arlanon
12.28.2012 , 09:03 AM | #1927
they should just dedicate one server to stupid people

it will be called "Stupid People" server

y'all can have a free transfer there

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
12.28.2012 , 09:23 AM | #1928
Quote: Originally Posted by P-Chan View Post
I beg to differ... There have been many times I have gone up against a premade, Done "everything right" (I.E. fought on node, targeted healer, And used Ops chat) and not gotten a single Comm. But maybe this IS my fault... I call Incs, place markers on healers, try to coordinate in ops chat, know my class, etc... Maybe Im doing it wrong?

The whole point most of us solo queuers are trying to make is that it shouldn't be MANDATORY to form a premade just to have a little fun. If you cant at least concede that point, then you just need to stop posting, cause you are completely one sided and wont get anywhere here.
No where did I say that it would work every time and no where did I say anything was mandatory. As I stated before, I solo queue almost exclusively simply because of time restraints and timing conflicts with the guild that I am in.

It is not a guaranteed win whenever you use OPs chat, call incs, mark healers, etc. but it does greatly increase your chances of winning. I, like you, have been in WZs where I didn't get a thing but it wasn't because I was facing a premade. I've had it happen when facing other PUGs.

Why did, or does, it happen sometimes? Well, sometimes, the other team is just better and making a solo queue only option is not going to change that.

This is something that a lot of people don't seem to understand.

If BW did introduce a solo queue only WZ bracket and people still get rolled, whose fault is it then?

UncelSam's Avatar


UncelSam
12.28.2012 , 09:32 AM | #1929
The major benefit of the premade teams is their huge uberheals and healers who are guarded by tanks. This composition very rarly comes around in randomized teams. Often you dont have a single heal in random teams. Premade teams has often two very good healers.

Premade teams also have very gear due to thier previous successes in the WZs. The success comes from well balanced teams with excellent healers, as mentioned.

Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
12.28.2012 , 10:15 AM | #1930
Quote: Originally Posted by Dratten View Post
This is a mulitplayer game! They should encourage players to team up! If you want to play singleplayer you are most welcome but dont expect it to be better than teaming up with some friends or online player-friends.

Cmon guys.. This is common sense!
I agree. Remove normal warzone all together. If you can't get 8 people together in an ops group to queue for PvP then you might be an asocial freak that needs to see a shrink regularly. This is a multiplayer game, not some 1 to 4 casual co-op cowadoody care bear game.