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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.27.2012 , 08:36 PM | #1311
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
You're not asking to be coddled? Yet asking for -less- competition is exactly that. Either you take less rewards, or you take more (potential) competition.

No before anyone cries, I still think better matchmaking and cross server should be implemented (without reducing rewards or anything.) I do believe a more level playfield is good for a community, another reason I'm against the gear gap and glad to hear 1.6 is effectively going to remove it.

However, everyone should either take the steps to make themselves more competitive, or accept the consquences of their choices, which is not what's happening. Yes, there is a problem, yes there are some system changes (atleast I feel they are needed) that are needed, but it doesn't change the fact that page after page, we've watched people blame, insult, etc... everyone but themselves for others being better, for using tools to excell, and then using such lame excuses to do -worse- back to them than what's being "done" to you.
lol @ being coddled. I'm verrrry far from the best on my server. however, I wreck the vast majority of ppl that I face, and I point and laugh at them while they try to kill my healer. I don't need to be coddled. tyvm.

and I have great guildies who I would happily 4-man vs any other 4-man on the server. it would be competitive. however, the rated Qs are dead. my guild cannot field an 8-man (time constraints for various players), and in general, regular WZs are one-sided. which means I do them for the daily/weekly and then log off. wow. fun. no. I'd rather take the guildies that are on, divide them into even teams and have some fun (which you can only do in rated). now iunno what's up your rear end or how you think this defies the spirit of competition, but I think it pretty clearly facilitates competition on an otherwise dead server. and if that means every once in a while that a vastly superior rated team Qs at the same time and finds itself in an empty WZ, hey, I'm not going to lose hours of sleep at night.

regarding the solo Qs: grow up? me? you need to seriously re-evaluate your idea of maturity. here, let me help: why do you care so much if poor players get their sandbox and play against other poor players in their solo Q? who is that going to hurt? really...me grow up? you grow up. you'll get better matches in the "group" Q cuz the baddies and the undergeared/scared players won't use it, but any solo Qer who wants to still can. so what's up? what's your beef? it's like you're upset because your little sibling got his way and mommy bought her that extra barbie doll. who the hell cares? why does that ruin christmas for you? me grow up? look in the mirror.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Athena-Nike's Avatar


Athena-Nike
11.27.2012 , 08:43 PM | #1312
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlanon View Post
Aha, you fell into my trap. Even in full Rakata gear, me vs Soa is not an "appropriate opponent". In order to defeat Soa, I must join a PREMADE TEAM to take him down. This premade team must work together and coordinate their efforts in order to succeed.

PvP is no different there. I challenge you to prove otherwise. You are arguing simply for the sake of arguing.
However you get to select your TEAM before running the Op while in PVP pugs its just whomever gets tossed together. Queing for EV in GF doesn't just lump a team of 8 DPS'ers and expect you to take out the Ops, but queing for PvP as a pug DOES expect you to be able to take out a skilled premade with 8 random DPS'ers...

ThuaThal's Avatar


ThuaThal
11.27.2012 , 09:06 PM | #1313
Quote: Originally Posted by Athena-Nike View Post
However you get to select your TEAM before running the Op while in PVP pugs its just whomever gets tossed together. Queing for EV in GF doesn't just lump a team of 8 DPS'ers and expect you to take out the Ops, but queing for PvP as a pug DOES expect you to be able to take out a skilled premade with 8 random DPS'ers...
And what hinders YOU from queuing up for pvp with some decent guys? I don't get it. I simply don't.
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Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.28.2012 , 11:33 AM | #1314
<.< Wth?

Is it just me, or did like... a half a page of posts just vanish.

Eh... to recap what I said... lemme see... I apologized to Foxy for my last few posts lacking general respect for them... then I mentioned that if we got back on topic, the pro's of proper matchmaking outweigh a solo queue option, and anything involving "moral" concerns (namely voiced by me) is irrelevant in that 1 fact.

Then I agreed with Ashaari (or however their name is spelled) that 4-man option for ranked would be awesome, and of the two ideas (4-man for ranked or solo-only normal queue, the 4-man ranked would probably help more.)

And as usual, I ignored Tridus, whom has very little to offer and loves to bring up quotes out of context... kinda like a sleazy politician. Imagine that...

Arlanon's Avatar


Arlanon
11.28.2012 , 11:48 AM | #1315
We were up to 136 pages before my catnap. I guess the Jesus comment offended someone.

Jesus, people.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.28.2012 , 11:50 AM | #1316
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlanon View Post
We were up to 136 pages before my catnap. I guess the Jesus comment offended someone.

Jesus, people.
Whew, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it. I though maybe I'd fallen asleep and dreamed up replying. <.< I can think of much better things to dream about.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
11.28.2012 , 11:54 AM | #1317
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Me personally? Yes I love being a overpowered bastard with my teammates against fresh 50's. It's like putting a NFL team against a high school football team.

It's funny how you quickly dismiss and out right refuse to believe that the poster I quoted doesn't represent the majority of what's going on in normal warzones. Then again you are biased and can't see the other side, just from your post alone.

While it's fun for me and my buddies(while also boring after a while) to stomp on these fresh 50's, they probably won't come back due to my actions and other premades actions.

So I wonder what it is they plan on "doing" after something like that.

Chances are they aren't gonna queue up again for a while. Hence longer queue times.
As aforementioned numerous times in numerous threads, the situation described in the post you originally quoted can happen regardless of solo queue or not. My ability to solo 3 terrible players in recruit gear at a node has no bearing on my team and will continue to happen (more often in fact) in a solo queue. Therefore your reply still does not reflect an imbalance between PUGs and premades.

I am not biased and will hear arguments contrary to my position, but only if those arguments are relevant to the topic at hand. I will be in support of any change that makes the game fairer and more enjoyable for EVERYONE. If it does not apply to everyone, then a compromise must be found that will satisfy as many people as possible, not one that gives the ideal solution to one group and completely alienates another.

While population may be an issue in separating queues, the bigger problem is the logistics of making a team with a pool of groups with varying sizes. Take out the individuals and we have to get exactly 8 on a side using 2's, 3's, and 4's bearing in mind that groups on different factions cannot be mixed. The queue times would be atrocious.

Many of the issues that are attributed to premades would not be resolved by a solo queue. You will still have warzones where one team has a healer and the other doesn't. You will still have warzones where one team has more skilled players than the other. You will still have warzones where one team has better gear than the other. You will still have warzones where one team focuses on appropriate targets and one does not. You will still have warzones where one team has players willing to guard nodes and one does not.

In the case of this game, the compromise to both groups and individuals is that there is one queue available to anyone, but the maximum grouping is 4 in order to keep things balanced and avoid a true premade. From my perspective, I feel people are trying to find a way to separate casual players from what would be considered more competitive players and advocating for a solo queue as that solution.

My overall point in this particular post is this: No one would complain about playing against premades if the skill level was equal on both sides. If you lost a Novare Coast by 10% with lots of back and forth turret switching, you'd probably have a lot of fun and feel the teams were evenly matched. No one in the warzone has the same guild tag as anyone else, but you find out later on that 4 people on the other team were grouped. Was the warzone all the sudden not fun because of this? Did you have no shot at winning now because you found out they were grouped?

If your opinion of the warzone changes because you found out there was a group, then you are biased not me. (And I'm not implying that is the case, just stating that as fact)

TL;DR The problem isn't that people are playing together, it's that the skill level on both sides is not equal therefore a solo queue does not resolve the core issue.
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Arlanon's Avatar


Arlanon
11.28.2012 , 12:03 PM | #1318
Problem:
You PuG and fail.

Solution (this is manyfold so try to keep up, ok?):
Make friends
Join a guild with PvP players (optional, but recommended)
Join a Vent/Mumble/Teamspeak/Skype/etc with guild or whoever you are in warzone with
Practice, study, duel, learn what works well, not only for your own class but for all classes
Coordinate assaults, always be mindful of the objectives
Be willing to identify your mistakes and learn from them

ALTERNATELY:
Come to the forums to QQ

Which will you choose? You're making Chibi Vader cry.

HuaRya's Avatar


HuaRya
11.28.2012 , 12:10 PM | #1319
Quote: Originally Posted by ThuaThal View Post
And what hinders YOU from queuing up for pvp with some decent guys? I don't get it. I simply don't.
That isn't even related to the issue being discussed at this point. The issue is making sure your group of decent guys gets to play another group of decent guys. I mean come on after all you do want some kind of a challenge after you went to all that trouble to form your guild/group right?

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
11.28.2012 , 01:34 PM | #1320
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlanon View Post
Problem:
You PuG and fail.

Solution (this is manyfold so try to keep up, ok?):
Make friends
Join a guild with PvP players (optional, but recommended)
Join a Vent/Mumble/Teamspeak/Skype/etc with guild or whoever you are in warzone with
Practice, study, duel, learn what works well, not only for your own class but for all classes
Coordinate assaults, always be mindful of the objectives
Be willing to identify your mistakes and learn from them

ALTERNATELY:
Come to the forums to QQ

Which will you choose? You're making Chibi Vader cry.
Nice post
Commonsense seems to elude most here.
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
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