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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.24.2012 , 04:04 PM | #1151
Right now- the main two complaints are these.

Casuals/PuGs- right now, facing a premade means generally being dominated, a one sided match, and ultimately makes people want to queue less because it's not fun... which in turn lowers queues (you can argue as much as you want that being smashed by a premade doesn't make people not want to pvp- but everyone sensible knows the truth)

Premades- just premade queues would be too long since there's not enough people interested in actual competition.

Both legitimate- as while the current system makes pvp less fun for casuals, a separate system would make premades get less pvp.

There is a solution though-

1- Matchmaking/ELO. This should have been in from the start.
2- A ranked queue that is full premade- this is where 8 man teams belong. This queue should be cross-server, since real competition should mean a full group. That, and more players to draw from= less queue time. This should have unique titles, cosmetic gear, pets/mounts so that there is something at the end of the season to look forward to- and some mild decay so people won't just get to 2400 rating or whatever in the first few weeks then sit there without risking pvping again and hurting their rating.
3- A ranked queue that is partial premades and solo- for smaller teams, this queue should be cross server for the same reason as above. Same with cosmetics- just different from the full premade's choices so each queue has their unique rewards.
4- A normal queue that is specifically for casual play- no premades. Normal is not meant to be competitive, it's for fun- we have ranked for competitive. This queue has enough people to not need to go cross server. Normals are for getting the gear to be viable- and that should be reflected in the rate of gain- remove rated comms (or make them for cosmetic items specifically) and make EWH reasonable.

Premades don't get their queues fall, ranked might see real action, and normals get at least somewhat more even matches... at least they shouldn't see full EWH teams ploughing them ruthlessly over and over.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
11.24.2012 , 04:12 PM | #1152
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
Right now- the main two complaints are these.

Casuals/PuGs- right now, facing a premade means generally being dominated, a one sided match, and ultimately makes people want to queue less because it's not fun... which in turn lowers queues (you can argue as much as you want that being smashed by a premade doesn't make people not want to pvp- but everyone sensible knows the truth)

Premades- just premade queues would be too long since there's not enough people interested in actual competition.

Both legitimate- as while the current system makes pvp less fun for casuals, a separate system would make premades get less pvp.

There is a solution though-

1- Matchmaking/ELO. This should have been in from the start.
2- A ranked queue that is full premade- this is where 8 man teams belong. This queue should be cross-server, since real competition should mean a full group. That, and more players to draw from= less queue time. This should have unique titles, cosmetic gear, pets/mounts so that there is something at the end of the season to look forward to- and some mild decay so people won't just get to 2400 rating or whatever in the first few weeks then sit there without risking pvping again and hurting their rating.
3- A ranked queue that is partial premades and solo- for smaller teams, this queue should be cross server for the same reason as above. Same with cosmetics- just different from the full premade's choices so each queue has their unique rewards.
4- A normal queue that is specifically for casual play- no premades. Normal is not meant to be competitive, it's for fun- we have ranked for competitive. This queue has enough people to not need to go cross server. Normals are for getting the gear to be viable- and that should be reflected in the rate of gain- remove rated comms (or make them for cosmetic items specifically) and make EWH reasonable.

Premades don't get their queues fall, ranked might see real action, and normals get at least somewhat more even matches... at least they shouldn't see full EWH teams ploughing them ruthlessly over and over.
With cross server play I agree 100% with this idea. I think I suggested something similar not so long ago. Have normals drop normal warzone comms, Ranked queues (both the Team ranked and the solo ranked) drop ranked comms as an incentive to gear up so the people who get their war hero (battle master now) have an incentive to leave the fresh 50s alone.

This I like.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Targarion's Avatar


Targarion
11.24.2012 , 04:24 PM | #1153
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
Right now- the main two complaints are these.

Casuals/PuGs- right now, facing a premade means generally being dominated, a one sided match, and ultimately makes people want to queue less because it's not fun... which in turn lowers queues (you can argue as much as you want that being smashed by a premade doesn't make people not want to pvp- but everyone sensible knows the truth)

Premades- just premade queues would be too long since there's not enough people interested in actual competition.

Both legitimate- as while the current system makes pvp less fun for casuals, a separate system would make premades get less pvp.

There is a solution though-

1- Matchmaking/ELO. This should have been in from the start.
2- A ranked queue that is full premade- this is where 8 man teams belong. This queue should be cross-server, since real competition should mean a full group. That, and more players to draw from= less queue time. This should have unique titles, cosmetic gear, pets/mounts so that there is something at the end of the season to look forward to- and some mild decay so people won't just get to 2400 rating or whatever in the first few weeks then sit there without risking pvping again and hurting their rating.
3- A ranked queue that is partial premades and solo- for smaller teams, this queue should be cross server for the same reason as above. Same with cosmetics- just different from the full premade's choices so each queue has their unique rewards.
4- A normal queue that is specifically for casual play- no premades. Normal is not meant to be competitive, it's for fun- we have ranked for competitive. This queue has enough people to not need to go cross server. Normals are for getting the gear to be viable- and that should be reflected in the rate of gain- remove rated comms (or make them for cosmetic items specifically) and make EWH reasonable.

Premades don't get their queues fall, ranked might see real action, and normals get at least somewhat more even matches... at least they shouldn't see full EWH teams ploughing them ruthlessly over and over.
The cross server scenario is BW greatest failure in PVP. They have been trying to get this to happen since last spring and everytime we here anything about it, some programer admits it cannot be done with this game. It is the one solution that will get premades out of lower rank wz's into the arena they actually belong.

As a seasoned PVP vet I can take my moderately geared GS up against a premade and own those dudes, but that's because I have over a 1000 wz under my belt. You sort of learn a thing or two playing pvp for that long, but the noob stepping in for the first time actually wants to feel like he is enjoying the game without some premade geek farming his butt just because he can.

Even in sports you don't put a division one team up against a rec team. Why is it allowed in game competitive PVP?

BW doesn't view ingame PVP as a competitive sport, although some gamers take PVP as serious as an athelete takes football or baskett ball.

So I agree that we need to start separating HC gamers from Casuals in PVP. When the casuals hit a certain rating than bump them up a tier.

Tiberians's Avatar


Tiberians
11.24.2012 , 04:34 PM | #1154
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..
sucks to be you

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.24.2012 , 04:35 PM | #1155
Solo ranked Q would completely defeat the purpose of regular WZs. Why would anyone Q for normal WZs at this point?

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
11.24.2012 , 07:43 PM | #1156
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Solo ranked Q would completely defeat the purpose of regular WZs. Why would anyone Q for normal WZs at this point?
Well fresh 50s would take it as a way to get their non recruit gear in an environment where they won't face crushing defeat at the hands of min/maxed war hero geared players, some of whom are no doubt in some sort of premade. If it's solo queue it would also be nice for people who just want to log on and do dailies in a low key environment. It would provide an option for people who say they just want casual PVP. They could gear up at their own pace, and not risk facing more organized competition.

Exactly what people have been clamoring for. You should still be able to complete dailies and weeklies with it, so there is still the possibility of doing that.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
11.24.2012 , 08:14 PM | #1157
Quote: Originally Posted by LeonHawkeye View Post
Oh the irony. Please rise up to the challenge to overcome your mediocrity and fix your horrible grammar and spelling. On a serious note, not all posts may be constructive nor for a split queue system, but the overwhelming majority agree the system is not fine as is and are for the following in any combination and or order:

-Cross Realm Function
-Adequate and more robust Matchmaking System
-Split queues for Premades and Pugs.


All three of which are pure gold for PvP and all three of which we honestly need as they compound each other and make for a solid system which fixes many if not all problems, putting PvP in an overall much more attractive, balanced and functioning state. We as a community need to be pushing for all three and not just a single one. Alone none of these will fix PvP, instead it will become a slightly less annoying but still dysfunctional system. We need all three, no less, stop arguing and start working together to push for a much more robust, balanced, thriving and competitive PvP system for all.
Yay! you attacked someones spelling and grammar on the internet. In a computer game forum none the less. + 5 internet points. Not like I made a rushed post from a tablet or anything. Now onto real content.

Doom already said it, but we don't need all 3. I"ll go a step further though and say we only need 1. I'm pretty sure I'm actually the poster who got this thread accept that matchmaking does in fact exist in game currently, granted it could be better, but that would lengthen que times. If they get too long I believe (note how like everyone else here I can't prove it) that will cause SWTOR to hemorrhage subs. Adding Cross server, with the existing matchmaking system will fix the majority of the (perceived?)problem while keeping que times where they are or making them shorter.

So my previous points still stand, but hopefully this clarifies a point I made in the thread 20ish pages ago that LeonHawkeye hasn't read.

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
11.25.2012 , 02:00 AM | #1158
Asun. You are wrong. Now I support a better matchkaking system (something that doesn't keep q's too long) but your whole lose subs like crazy argument is just ignorant. There are far less geared premaders than there are casuals. If all the geared premaders quit that would be a rather small % of overall players and it would likely help the q. Now I am not for this but I just get annoyed when someone says something as ignorant as you just did.

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
11.25.2012 , 02:39 AM | #1159
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika View Post
Asun. You are wrong. Now I support a better matchkaking system (something that doesn't keep q's too long) but your whole lose subs like crazy argument is just ignorant. There are far less geared premaders than there are casuals. If all the geared premaders quit that would be a rather small % of overall players and it would likely help the q. Now I am not for this but I just get annoyed when someone says something as ignorant as you just did.
Wait arguing that long ques lead to people leaving the game is just ignorant? Even when I specifically stated it was opinion. Hmm. Now as I said I don't have the reports that BW gathers when people unsub, but I seem to remember once que times got over 5 minutes they pretty quickly got up to fifteen, (because more people gave up / logged off / unsubbed), which quickly turned them into 30+ minute ques. Do you not remember the origin servers? I many not be RIGHT, but ignortant? No more so than anyone else without BW's unsub reason data, and my opinion looks pretty justifyable based on the explination I just gave even if it is incorrect, which we don't know.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
11.25.2012 , 02:57 AM | #1160
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Solo ranked Q would completely defeat the purpose of regular WZs. Why would anyone Q for normal WZs at this point?
Fun. Especially if the only difference was ranked got cosmetic things.

But gear progression in normal pvp- put unique cosmetics in ranked.