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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

LeonHawkeye's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 10:45 AM | #1081
Quote: Originally Posted by Muramxx View Post
No, It's like this Abraham Lincoln got shot in the head, Who's fault is it? Booth who pulled the trigger, maybe the gun or bullet?

Booth = premades
Gun = messed up PVP system
Bullet = PUG's
Lincoln = actual PVP

Premades use faulty system to dominate (Booth using a gun to get what he wants.) Eventually the majority of people will leave the game the majority are PUGS (The bullet leaves the gun because Booth pulled the trigger.) The eventuality of it is no more PVP for all because no one ques anymore. What once was good is no more because of a small group that wanted everything to be thier way (Booth (premade) wants it to be his way an no one elses because he doesn't like how the country is, he makes a plot gets a gun (the faulty PVP system) and uses it to his advantage. The bullet leaves the gun because Booth pulled the trigger forcing the bullet to leave (PUG's forced to leave because the PVP aspect is completely 1 sided and not worth playing.) Now Lincoln is dead because the minority got what they wanted (No more PUG's = longer Ques = the game bleeds out and dies.)
Cute analogy, could not agree more.

Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
I'm of the opinion - and I realize I'm in the minority here - that there shouldn't be any back fill in WZs. furthermore, if there's more than a 2 player difference in the numbers, then the WZ will automatically shutdown. here's my rationale:[LIST][*]you're never going to stop ppl from dropping for w/e reason - no penalties are gong to work. they never do, and they punish ppl for dcs.[*]the person who back fills usually gets thrown into a bad situation, and he's not happy about it. he might just leave asap, which only hurts his team more and prevents/delays a shutdown[*]if i'm on the team getting throttled, rather than a revolving door of back fills, I'd rather the WZ just end so I can get into a competitive wz
Actually thought this myself since the "Game dropping" epidemic started a few patches ago. Although I've won several games where our team was more than 300 points down, 2-3 goals down, 2-3 doors behind the opponent, I don't much enjoy these games because this only rarely happens. The vast majority of back filled games happen because that team was losing and trigger happy players jumped ship, those games just need to die out, they are not fun for the overwhelming majority. Steeper yet reasonably forgiving penalties need to be instated, something that will punish the cronic Wz dropper yet not punish poor Bob over there who's dog is on fire.

Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
1. I am a Commando (Dps or Heals as needed, Grinded the WH being DPS)
2. I was Premading (and PuG'ing) since recruit. I managed it by being in a guild (leveled in it) and asking "Anyone for a group?
3. Sometimes there isn't a spot. Guild Groups atleast have a little loyalty to give you a spot over friends (sometimes.)
4. See 1. I am a Commando.

I do not mean that you in particular are "lazy" and I'm sure you put a good effort in while fighting, but there is -more- effort you can put in, and I'm sure you know it. The point I'm making is that we're not talking about victims here. PuG's are not victims. They are willing combatants (no one forced them to queue for pvp) and if they quit because the competition is too hard, then the fault for dying queue times can just as easily (if not more) rest on them, as it can on "overpowered" premaders.
No, just no, stop posting. I have never seen a more ignorant, self gratifying and blatantly wrong mentality than yours. Telling the vast majority of your player base they are "lazy" and need to play the game a certain way and only that way in order to avoid a frustrating and annoying experience is just plain childish. Being social is a choice, not requirement. Your attitude is a classic pretense to maintain something that benefits or gives an advantage to a small portion of a population mainly or only facilitating that small portion's comfort zone at the cost of the remaining population's. Telling and forcing your player base to play a certain way in an age of clear choices will only push them away from your horribly dysfunctional paradigm. While having options to go above and beyond, improve and conquer is reasonable, forcing your players into that being the only "fun" way to play will not go over well.Just stop.

Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
I do not advocate "No Change/System Fine."

I am simply arguing against split brackets/solo bracket and promoting a matchmaker/flexible system. If your posts do not show you understand even the basic principles of my stance, I will ignore them from here on. If it makes it easier, I'll list them once more.

Nearly all my posts revolve around:

1. We need Matchmaking that matches based on some criteria, be it Gear Level, Highest Average Gear Level, Valor, Win/Losses, etc...

2. We need cross-server queue's for a healthy, more robust population that can handle the criteria restrictions.

3. Players should look at self-improvement as their first option.

Ps. Your last reply to me is one giant cluster-**** of miss managed quotes, until you fix it I won't even attempt a response.

While I still believe long term, a matchmaking system is needed for a healthy pvp environment, I do think if ranked had a 4 man option (I'm fine with mixed queue, I do not fear going up against an 8 man with 2 "random" 4-mans) we would also see some relief in non-ranked for our -actual- new players.
First coherent post you've made that actually makes valid points. Stick to this. Being against a Solo/Ranked Split Queue system is your opinion and right but it is clearly evident the vast majority of the player base and the game itself would benefit from it the moment it has the tools to support it (Cross Realm) stop arguing against it, the benefits of this system vastly outweigh it's costs. All we'd be losing is Pugs being roflstomped by Premades at the cost of little if any queue time increase when implemented in tandem with Cross Realm. Until then, thanks to people with your hilariously dysfunctional mentality we will have this -------->

Quote: Originally Posted by Veniras View Post
This is a moot discussion.

By nature premades vs PUGS is a gross imbalance. This problem will only be underlined HEAVILY by the new WZ as premades will be better at focus fire. PUGS are gonna stop PVP'ing in despair.

So either BW fixes the matchmaking or the PVP population will dwindle.

LenrocNewDawn's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 11:13 AM | #1082
Quote: Originally Posted by filipesantana View Post
Swtor pvp community lacks any type of pvp skill..the frustration when solo queuing is just too much to bare, I'm not here to teach,carry or "just play"..yes I'm an elitist jerk, but I never wanted to please everyone anyway..even when in a premade sometimes I get frustrated with the 4 randoms in the team..
Ha Ha HA filipe there is nothing elitist about you. If you'd be an elitist your stance would be somewhere on the lines " Common BW, for crying out loud, save me from the cohorts of bads that roam the normal WZs. My awesomeness can't improve while facing such nuggets."
Instead you are using the same fallacy over and over again, "Everybody should play the way I play" knowing for a fact that will not happen for a number of reasons (either they are newbies, don' have the time , don't have the mood or they don't want to put up with elitist jerks like yourself).
I remember when ranked hit the live servers. There were forming calls for Ranked teams on the general fleet chat. Now you can spend days online looking for such a call and see one as frequent as Lochness monster sightings. Guess is a hard feat to be an "elitist jerk" in the big boys league while it's way easier to be the schoolyard bully and call yourself an "elitist jerk" instead of simply a "jerk".
The fact you state that you don't care about anything else but yourself make me wonder who endures your company but I guess that will remain a mystery for me long after I've stopped playing SWTOR.

Good luck with the PvP.
“Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.”

Arlanon's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 11:18 AM | #1083
Quote: Originally Posted by Ssfbistimg
not true. Before this game I never did any pvp in any game. Then for some reason I decided to try PVP in this game. When I first started playing pvp with my trooper (lvl 20) back in January I was horrible. And I was playing against fully geared 50's back then. Every warzone I entered I started learning the objectives and my class. Over time I started realizing that I didnt have to do things solo. Started noticing who were good players and I'd follow them and attack who they attacked. Seeing what they were doing. But honestly what helped me the most was quitting at 1.2 to play Tera. In Tera you cant click your abilities you have to use keybinds. This made a huge difference when I came back to SW:TOR. But I went from around a 2/10 when I started doing warzones to now I believe I am 7/10. I wouldnt have gotten better tho if I played against people who were as bad as I was.
Most bads dont believe they are bad and hence dont try and learn to be better. they just ask for nerfs or complain about gear gaps or premades or hacks.
This post should be a sticky with comments disabled

BarneyBash's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 11:28 AM | #1084
im sure the OP has gotten trolled alot for his care bearish way of stating his complaint.
it's true the PVP vets are often stomping on the low level players in the WZ's but thats just the nature of it. Yes you get leveled to have your stats match a natural 50 but your skills and gear are going to be weak. thats why all WZ's are objective oriented not kill/death. thus if your only going to be an annoyance to an oposing team. THEN BE AN ANNOYANCE.
You have to realize that you can't beat that geared vet so instead troll his *** from a distance as soon as he tries to hit an objective run up and poke him and hope that your teams vet is finishing him off.
STRATEGY boys and girls STRATEGY

LenrocNewDawn's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 11:34 AM | #1085
Arlon key thing in that text you quoted is "back in January". I was in his exact situation but back then the game was more forgiving. A huge player base, a very new community with no veterans (maybe MMORPG veterans but they were just gearing/organizing themselves) new game mechanics made that my/his lack of skill didn't mean horrendous PvP gameplay. When I leveled my second toon in march I was already more educated , saved coms and researched rotations way before dinging 50 which eased my transition. This thread is not about nerfs, FOTM, CC/Resolve but about the glaring imbalance that the current match making sometimes concocts. Pre-mades are just the tip of the iceberg because we also have uneven class compositions even in same faction games and pitting veterans against new players.
“Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.”

Arlanon's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 11:37 AM | #1086
Doesn't matter what month it was. He had the proper attitude then and hopefully still has it today.

People on these forums can learn a lot from that post.

Jarfunkz's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 11:41 AM | #1087
It is the system itself. It doesn't matter what system you have, you will always have good players, bad players, pugs, and premades.

It should NOT be gear based. Players should be able to craft, (each sub profession, should craft certain items) in order for great gameplay to occur. Pvp items should only allow something minimum, like skin or an extra small enhancement be it stats or bonus set.

It needs to be community based in every aspect. I am not going to write six brick wall pages of how it should be, I get paid for a living.

LenrocNewDawn's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 11:53 AM | #1088
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlanon View Post
Doesn't matter what month it was. He had the proper attitude then and hopefully still has it today.

People on these forums can learn a lot from that post.
If you tomorrow pick up boxing for a sport trust me it will mean a world of difference between boxing against your own level players as opposed to boxing against Vitali Klitschko. Yes agreed is about the attitude too. Being willing to acquire gear and skills is important too and I'm sure that there are people willing to do that even under the current situation but what is more important is how many are there that have the stamina to endure the current state of progression. Sadly I don't have any hard numbers but if I'd have to "guess-timate" I'd say not enough . I might be wrong of course!
“Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.”

DarthRaika's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 11:58 AM | #1089
I'm sorry but at this point most of people that mainly premade are mediocre players taking advantage of the low soft skill cap of this game along with their gear and party composition. Good players get bored of pugstomping. I've never seen people that were really good at pvp (not just gear and premade dependent) that could stand pugstomping for this long. I guess if your irl was really horrible then maybe you could enjoy it even as a good player but that is pretty much the only way.

Hopefully 1.6 will help a lot though. We need premade matching as well.

Arlanon's Avatar

11.22.2012 , 12:30 PM | #1090
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika
I'm sorry but at this point most of people that mainly premade are mediocre players taking advantage of the low soft skill cap of this game along with their gear and party composition.
If it's the mediocre players who are forming premades, then those should be mediocre premades.

What, then, is the difference between a mediocre premade and a mediocre pug? Does queing together give some sort of power boost? What exactly is the point of all of this.