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lock box debate


kooffee's Avatar


kooffee
10.14.2012 , 06:46 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by utio View Post
Item A. Pack of cards, contents are cards. You get a chance to get some special cards, but you could get normal cards only.
Item B. Lockbox, contents are loot. You could get special loot, but you could get just normal loot only.

A. a pack of cards contain a pack of cards, regardless if one of them cards has a higher face value, but lets face it there is not a single set of cards in production with any special cards with a Monterey value, that would be a lottery and has such gambling, here in the UK and also in some states in the US. and if it does contain some kind of lottery the UK loophole is "no purchase necessary" so you are not forced to gamble 1000000 of packets to have a chance.

B a lockbox is more in common with the packaging of the said cards than the actual cards, after all u open the lock box to find your product. that product could be anything and is chance based by % in a way to bring in a income much like a fruit machine.

the card debate has no place here..... more place in a thread saying something like

" i opened 50 lockboxs and only got a blues, i wanted a orange!"
then by all means counter that with "you buy a deck of cards and u have a chance of getting a rare"

the card counter holds no water at all, i've yet to seen a valid argument on that side anyway but in little replys on forums.


the other aspect too, have u ever seen a casino with just one fruit machine?
in a casino its the income, much like its going to be for the bioware/EA which means put fruit machines on every inch of floor space and just give them room to walk around.

Mithros's Avatar


Mithros
10.14.2012 , 08:04 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Ster-Ling View Post
Source? Unless you've got some information I don't, a lockbox doesn't necessarily contain gear.

It could contain a vehicle. Or a vanity pet. Or useful consumables like stims. Or useless consumables like sparkle powder. Or a handful of commendations. Or maybe one of those disco ball dance party items. If my experience with random loot boxes from other mmos are any indication, the chances of a lockbox containing gear shall be remote.

So, let's please see your evidence re: lockboxes containing gear.
Splitting your hairs awfully thin here, aren't you?

What do you want to call it? Loot? Okay, let's call it 'loot' instead of 'gear'. Game stuff that is intended for use by a character.

Don't like the card comparison? Okay, let's get real, then.

This isn't like walking into a casino and playing poker or blackjack or slots.
If you win there you get to go home with your winnings.

This game is like those 'for entertainment only' poker, blackjack, or slot machines that only give you a score on the machine in exchange for your quarter.
You don't own any of this stuff in the game. None of it.

It simply can not be gambling because you can never 'win'.

You want the odds? The odds of you getting anything that you can call your own from these lockboxes is 1: Never.
Beta Squadron 157

As long as we remember, it's never really gone.

Spoletta's Avatar


Spoletta
10.14.2012 , 08:56 AM | #93
I don't understand why people have problems with lockboxes, they are in pretty much every F2P so it was a given that we would get them.

This is like any other feature coming with F2P, if they don't screw up then it's not going to be a problem. Team fortress 2 has lockboxes, but i never had problems with those.
If they don't put top tier gear in there then what is the problem?
If they put a big red sign every time someone unpacks a "Raging Jawa of The North Star" then i will unsub and stop playing.
Is it really too much to ask to wait and see how they actually implement this system?
If they manage to make a good revenue out of it without being a bother to those that don't want to have anything to do with it, then more money to the game and more content to us.
Let's just wait and see before raging.

Ster-Ling's Avatar


Ster-Ling
10.14.2012 , 08:58 AM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
Splitting your hairs awfully thin here, aren't you?

What do you want to call it? Loot? Okay, let's call it 'loot' instead of 'gear'. Game stuff that is intended for use by a character.
You tried to argue that you do, in fact, know what's in the lockbox: gear.

Evidently you can't redefine "gear" broadly enough to cover sparkle powder, so here we are.

The fact is, you really don't khow what's in it. Nice try, saying "gear," though.


Quote:
This game is like those 'for entertainment only' poker, blackjack, or slot machines that only give you a score on the machine in exchange for your quarter.
You don't own any of this stuff in the game. None of it.

It simply can not be gambling because you can never 'win'.

You want the odds? The odds of you getting anything that you can call your own from these lockboxes is 1: Never.
So now your argument is that you know what isn't in the lockbox: anything of value.

Yet people valued the in the ingame items associated with the CE and VIP vendors enough to pay extra for the game. Because, whether or not you wish to assign those ingame items an actual value, people perceive value in such items as exclusive speeders and costume pieces that can't be obtained through gameplay.

The perceived value of these virtual items is enough that people will exhibit behaviors associated with gambling; and whether or not you concede that it's really gambling, lockboxes are proven to succeed at exploiting those behaviors.

Call it gambling, or not. It doesn't matter. People are going to spend their money gambling on those boxes.

utio's Avatar


utio
10.14.2012 , 09:53 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Redat View Post
Like it or not its STILL a cash-grab and gambling to boot. Trying to twist the logic isnt going to work here. Especially when you are not told the odds of getting "cool items", you bet your last pound that it will cost the player a fair amount to have ANY chance to obtain decent gear/items.........read the article in my sig, they did an experiment in STO and it cost $153 to obtain decent loot, now THAT is simply deplorable.
Of course they're a cash grab. But it's up to the player if he wants to take a chance or not. As for the experiment, what about the person that opened the first lockbox and got the ship? It's completely random. But again it's up to the player to decide if they want to take the chance, no one is forcing them.
PROPER SPACE COMBAT PLEASE

DuckKing's Avatar


DuckKing
10.14.2012 , 10:02 AM | #96
The Legacy system is for fluff. Lock boxes should contain decent stuff like gear and not fluff but even then sub players shouldn't have to gamble for gear and cool stuff. Isn't our sub money enough?

simplius's Avatar


simplius
10.14.2012 , 10:49 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by DuckKing View Post
The Legacy system is for fluff. Lock boxes should contain decent stuff like gear and not fluff but even then sub players shouldn't have to gamble for gear and cool stuff. Isn't our sub money enough?
from EAs perspective,,,?
unless STO/PW are cheating with the messages, the lockboxes are working for them,,sadly
but i hope BW will show more restraint and do it , so it wont have so big negative impact on gameplay, as in STO

Leggomy's Avatar


Leggomy
10.14.2012 , 10:53 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by Greyshadow View Post
Lock Boxes, are loot drops with random chance items inside that could either be that top level purple piece you are looking for, or something like say, a common medpac.

THe box drops off of any mobs, doesn't even have to be elite or anything, HOWEVER you must buy the key to the box off the real money store.
LOTRO has lockboxes. The keys also drop and they hand them out all the time for free. You can buy them yes but you do not have to buy them. Honestly its a sucker bet anyways because 90% of the boxes will contain garbage. Like scratch off lottery tickets.

kevlarto's Avatar


kevlarto
10.14.2012 , 10:58 AM | #99
My question about thses lock boxes, will I need them to progress my toon ? are they something I will need to play the game ? or are they like a fun little grab bag, you pay for and see what you get ? Will I be forced to buy them or will be just an option ? if they are not needed for me to progress my toon what is the problem ? is some one afraid some one might get someting cooler out of a lock box than they have ? I am not a fan of random things when it does have a direct influence on my game play, but some thing on the side like this could be fun, I have already seen the dev's say nothing that special is going into them, armor that is already in the game.. I dunno I think I see allot of knee jerking reaction to a non issue once again.. /shrug

But maybe I am wrong time will tell, plus I don't really care..
Do not dwell in the past, do not not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.

Expectations lead to suffering

Hambunctious's Avatar


Hambunctious
10.14.2012 , 10:59 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by DuckKing View Post
The Legacy system is for fluff. Lock boxes should contain decent stuff like gear and not fluff but even then sub players shouldn't have to gamble for gear and cool stuff. Isn't our sub money enough?
I'm afraid our sub money isn't going to be good enough for them. They may be more interested in milking money from those ignorant souls who thinks they got a deal by spending $200 in the cash shop per month than pay a $15 monthly sub.

This is really a sad time for MMOs. The number of people with low, or no standards, is growing. Especially in the US. Just look at the pop culture, and what we have on television today.