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PvP Gameplay deserves better.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
PvP Gameplay deserves better.

Apaolo's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 11:38 AM | #1
I really can't say it any better than the title. I don't understand how the development team allows such broken mechanics to remain live in the current PvP realm. It's been TWO weeks since this terrible patch went live, and when I say terrible, this encompasses all aspects of gameplay that were broken upon release. Sure the new Ops seems to be great, but when you break more content than what you send live, it's considered terrible in the professional sense of development.

PvP has reached an all-time low in this game, coupled with head scratching changes, you have literally surpassed the failure of 1.2's patch for PvP. The team has shown an unwillingness to sit down and digest what this gameplay feature needs, to communicate with the players in the PvP section and ask questions, and gives off just an overall feel of abandonment and neglect. I understand all aspects of gameplay deserve solid upates, attention and communication, but I feel out of all the issues abroad, the PvP base has gotten the shaft for too long.

While some don't think it's "a representation of committment", I honestly feel that a lot of this disconnect rests squarely on the shoulders of Gabe Amatangelo, Principal Lead PvP designer. Since 1.2 (which is notorious for the serious debacles in PvP changes and lying about Ranked PvP and pulling it hours before release) hundreds of thousands of players unsubbed, and he hasn't once come to the forums and spoken with it's player base since February 2nd. Yes, I'd rather have my developers working on developing, but give me a break. Lead designers have (in games past and present) shown themselves to make an effort with communication, polls and just general discussion on gameplay. This guy hasn't even logged in since May 6th. Thanks Gabe & Mythic.

And that goes for anyone on the PvP development staff. Allison relays information when fed from someone else on the team, but never follows up on the many questions afterwards. It shouldn't be her job to be the "go between" from the PvP base and PvP development, but if that's going to be the way it is, then at least pretend to follow up more often. Perhaps this is the same for other gameplay features as well, but I can only speak on behalf of the PvP base. It's just atrocious, and very indicative of your current game status, which we all know isn't great and continuing to spiral downwards. It's sad to see, because I (like many others) want this game to succeed or at least be worth the monthly subscription.

Communication aside, the development for whatever reason has gone downhill as well. We all know the horror stories with 1.4, and the amount of facepalms in many areas of gameplay. No matter how small PvP is to TOR, or what others perceive it to be on the list of priorities, if you offer said gameplay you should maintain said gameplay to the highest standard like any other gameplay feature. PvP has been kicked to the side, with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of players leaving in dismay. Like other games, notably SWG, I gave it years to straighten itself out. Eventually it did, and I was glad I stuck it out. And trust me, I hate using that game for any referrence to TOR, but my point is I will not be waiting years until this team figures it out. Honestly, I just don't think the current team cares enough about this feature, which is evident by allowing a serious game-breaking issue (bugged WZ's) go this long with no fix, even a band-aid fix.

No matter what others think, PvP is supposed to be in this game, PvP had a HUGE player base that made this game thrive even further than expected. We were told to expect an epic level of PvP development, with the "best team" around. And honestly, a long time ago, it was pretty solid with only minor issues worth complaining about. Now it's a joke, and I don't see any effort on this games behalf to work through it, nor any communication (or just lies to make the player base feel better) to even justify playing anymore. I have 7 days or so left, and not even my nerdiness for Star Wars can keep me from unsubbing. Been around since early Beta, never let my sub run out (despite some threats here and there), bought the epic CE within the first minutes of release...but now...I give up. I can't justify my stay when your PvP team can't justify their committment. Best of luck to those hanging about, I do hope it gets better for those staying onboard. But the tl;dr version is, the PvP aspect deserves better.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 11:54 AM | #2
Well said...

and reluctantly... signed.

I hate to agree but the potential of PvP is going to waste.

uziforyou's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 11:55 AM | #3
Sorry, the reality is that it will never get least not to the satisfaction of players. I try not to involk WoW but I'll do so here because I played that game for 7 years and do you know what the most common subject was in their forums? You guessed it, PvP gameplay and balance. It's still the most common thread over there to this day.

I'm not sure exactly why but PvP'ers tend to be more passionate about their dissatisfactions than PvE'ers and just in shear numbers there's just no way any game company, Blizzard, Bioware etc. are going to be able to satisfy them all. It really is the old saying 'You can please some of the people all the time................'

So that's why I'm saying it will never truly be 'fixed' to the satisfaction of the playerbase.
"When you're bleeding out in a ditch on some muckball planet it's not headquarters that comes to save you, it's the guy next to you."

cycao's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 11:56 AM | #4
Sucks they moved this out of the general forum but I guess that means they know about it and will get swept under the rug. I agree everything you have said. The majority of things that have been changed or adjusted cause more harm than good and are mainly unwanted. I know its hard to make any decision and not have someone upset but with the last two patches my faith in this game has reached an all time low.

This game had incredible potential and they stated they themselves had no idea how popular it was going to be. You think with a statement like that they would want more involvement in the PvP aspects of this game but each patch it becomes clear that they are moving away from PvP more and putting it aside in order to create a F2P model and enhance PvE (I know its a PvE game but still we are paying just as much as they are).

I shall miss you on the forums sir and the only thing keeping me around is I enjoy the people I still play with and when they want to stop playing ill stop.

Technohic's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 12:05 PM | #5
Well said.

I will be around a while longer as I do like leveling alts; but outside of that, it surprises me that they would not see to better quality in PvP. PvP content, especially open world PvP content; pretty much is self sustaining content for those who wish to participate, as it is different every time. War Zones need to be added, but the open world factor, if done right would be fresh just from the randomness.

Wouldn't fix everything as there is still some balancing and mechanical issues as well, but the neglect of all of it boggles my mind.

DarkSaberMaster's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 12:09 PM | #6
Totally agree with everything you said, Pistols. I'll be leaving from this game soon also. My sub runs out on the 22nd. I wasn't an avid PvPer until i came to SWTOR. After seeing how the PvPers have been getting the shaft in this game, I now understand why you and so many others were always frustrated on the SWG forums. I decided a while back that I wasn't going to give another game the same years of hope to fix itself like I did SWG. Take it easy, bro. Hopefully someone with some sense will come up with a decent MMO one day. I doubt it, but the genre can't stay terrible forever, can it?
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Apaolo's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 12:11 PM | #7
Patches O'Houlhan!!!


DarthOvertone's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 12:14 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Apaolo View Post
While some don't think it's "a representation of committment", I honestly feel that a lot of this disconnect rests squarely on the shoulders of Gabe Amatangelo, Principal Lead PvP designer.
I watch and read interviews with Gabe and I always walk away with the estimation that he understands the PvP shortfalls of this game and what it needs. I really get a sense that he has his finger on the pulse of what the PvP community needs and wants.

For a short time, PvP was actually getting better from EA to 1.1.5. My confidence in BW, which was utterly shattered with the Ilum Valor Patch, was slowly being restored. Then 1.2 hit and PvP in this game went sideways again and hasn't recovered, slowly spiraling downward to 1.4 which is by far the worst Patch to date. It seems the best PvP days of SWTOR are behind it. 1.1.5 apparently was the golden period for PvP in this game.

And it seems to me that Gabe, although he appears to have a firm understanding of the state of PvP in this game, is just juggling too much stuff to give PvP the attention it deserves (he is also in charge of endgame PvE Ops and FPS). PvP really needs its own dedicated Lead Dev. It's just not a part-time job. The project management and quality control from a PvP standpoint have been an utter disaster in this game.

I wish you the best of luck Pistols. Your Forum contributions were always an entertaining read. It's a shame we are losing another good player and Star Wars fan because EA/BW keeps failing so badly.
Alphanoob, Alpha-zen (among others) - Garbage S1 Champion
Ebon Hawk | Harbinger
SWTOR 4.3: It was good while it lasted. Thanks BW

HammerHermann's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 12:24 PM | #9
It's all about the money. These dudes are waiting on a severance package.

Soljin's Avatar

10.11.2012 , 12:28 PM | #10
Big'Ol Bummer...But I agree totally.

I actually un subbed once before when they announced sever tranfer targets were over a month out and RMP was completely dead...Most of the PvP community had left due to Nerfs etc...Nothing to do so I hit the button.

Came back once transfers opened up....As I wanted to play the game, just couldnt until the transfer.

BW is definately sending a message in my opinion...You go to general and you'll See Allison B. Responding to many threads fairly regularly....PvP forums not so much.

Merc/Commando have been requesting Dev response on their AC design for months regarding PvP aspects...Not one single response......

If you ask a question about the new Operation you'll have an answer ASAP....You put the letters PvP together and your guarentee'd to never hear a word.

Honestly I dont think they have the resources and/or ability to do much of anything for PvP or we would be see'ing word of future plans atleast...Just to shut us up. Not a word about it doesnt really fair well...I think they are fine with leaving it as is... The BW team is apperently comfortable with losing a large portion of the PvP community...even more then they have already lost (Which is substantial!).
SWToR really is the next SWG...
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