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An in-depth look at: The Prequel Trilogy Jedi and Sith Part 2

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
An in-depth look at: The Prequel Trilogy Jedi and Sith Part 2

Reynaga's Avatar


Reynaga
10.11.2012 , 12:58 PM | #21
I know you can throw this out, but they did have a fight between two embodiments already with the father the son and the daughter.
The Korbin Legacy B.C.
"When fighting monsters, one must take care not to become a monster themselves." F. N.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.11.2012 , 01:01 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Reynaga View Post
I know you can throw this out, but they did have a fight between two embodiments already with the father the son and the daughter.
It ends in a stalemate though, the father ends the battle with neither side gaining the upper hand.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.11.2012 , 01:13 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Strong emotion as in an emotion that leads to the Dark Side. Sadness may lead to dark places for those who can't control it, but the Jedi can control their sadness because they understand that the cause of sadness (in this case death) is a natural part of life and they make peace with it.
Love is a strong emotion.

I think the point that we're missing here is this: the Jedi of old probably realized that love could be used in a lightsided fasion, but they knew that love could, like any other emotion, lead to the darkside if handled poorly. I believe that these same Jedi likely would have tought that using Love was good, but they didn't know how to teach their pupils how to control it, so they decided it was best left out of the Jedi beliefs. I'm just thinking out loud here so don't hammer me please .

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
10.11.2012 , 01:18 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Love is a strong emotion.

I think the point that we're missing here is this: the Jedi of old probably realized that love could be used in a lightsided fasion, but they knew that love could, like any other emotion, lead to the darkside if handled poorly. I believe that these same Jedi likely would have tought that using Love was good, but they didn't know how to teach their pupils how to control it, so they decided it was best left out of the Jedi beliefs. I'm just thinking out loud here so don't hammer me please .
Not entirely sure they completely left it out...I mean remember what Obi-Wan said?

"You were my brother Anakin, I loved you!"

So love isn't really neglected, just you can't let it(like other emotions) take control.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 01:26 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Not entirely sure they completely left it out...I mean remember what Obi-Wan said?

"You were my brother Anakin, I loved you!"

So love isn't really neglected, just you can't let it(like other emotions) take control.
^Correct. Love is an emotion that is difficult to control. It can lead to even more powerful emotions if a Jedi is not able to control it.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.11.2012 , 01:28 PM | #26
The Jedi Code (although complicated at parts) seems very staight forward in its goal.

The Sith Code however is much more interesting in my opinion. It's more like how to fulfilll the purpose of your being.
The most significant line (I think) is this:

Through Victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.

I think as someone stated earlier that this in part means that the best belong on top of the food chain. When the will of the most powerful is being satisfied, then everything is right. But I also think that this has a meaning on a much smaller scale that is meant for the individual. I think the Sith see themselves as oppresed because (like I said two sentences ago) they're meant to be on top. In accordance, they see the reigning power (being the Jedi and the Republic) as chains. They believe that their command of the force will set them free of the "opression" of the Jedi and Republic, hence the very last line of their code.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 01:28 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Love is a strong emotion.

I think the point that we're missing here is this: the Jedi of old probably realized that love could be used in a lightsided fasion, but they knew that love could, like any other emotion, lead to the darkside if handled poorly. I believe that these same Jedi likely would have tought that using Love was good, but they didn't know how to teach their pupils how to control it, so they decided it was best left out of the Jedi beliefs. I'm just thinking out loud here so don't hammer me please .
No problem with thinking out loud and you are right. As my reply to Wolf's post said, love is difficult to control and leads to even more powerful emotions.

And as Wolf said, it isn't completely neglected. It's difficult to control so that's why the Jedi don't approve of love.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 01:31 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
The Jedi Code (although complicated at parts) seems very staight forward in its goal.

The Sith Code however is much more interesting in my opinion. It's more like how to fulfilll the purpose of your being.
The most significant line (I think) is this:

Through Victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.

I think as someone stated earlier that this in part means that the best belong on top of the food chain. When the will of the most powerful is being satisfied, then everything is right. But I also think that this has a meaning on a much smaller scale that is meant for the individual. I think the Sith see themselves as oppresed because (like I said two sentences ago) they're meant to be on top. In accordance, they see the reigning power (being the Jedi and the Republic) as chains. They believe that their command of the force will set them free of the "opression" of the Jedi and Republic, hence the very last line of their code.
The Sith Code is really all about breaking the shackles that bind them. Authority, the Jedi Code, even the restrictions of the Force itself. The Sith want to become the ultimate being, in that they want to be the masters. But they do not realize that they are actually servants of the Dark Side. They project the illusion that they are in control, but it is really the Dark Side that is in control.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.11.2012 , 01:33 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Not entirely sure they completely left it out...I mean remember what Obi-Wan said?

"You were my brother Anakin, I loved you!"

So love isn't really neglected, just you can't let it(like other emotions) take control.
Absolutely right. Obi-wan did love Anakin. But remember what he told Yoda when Yoda said he'd have to face Ani:

"I can't do it. He's like a brother." - not a word for word quote but pretty close I think.

So in this sense, his love for Anakin nearly kept him from doing what ws necessary. If Obi-wan had had his way, he would have fought the Emperor and would have been destroyed. Luckily though, Yoda kept him in check. So once again, the Jedi (as a whole) kept love at arm's length because they didn't know how to handle it in a lightsided manor.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.11.2012 , 01:34 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Absolutely right. Obi-wan did love Anakin. But remember what he told Yoda when Yoda said he'd have to face Ani:

"I can't do it. He's like a brother." - not a word for word quote but pretty close I think.

So in this sense, his love for Anakin nearly kept him from doing what ws necessary. If Obi-wan had had his way, he would have fought the Emperor and would have been destroyed. Luckily though, Yoda kept him in check. So once again, the Jedi (as a whole) kept love at arm's length because they didn't know how to handle it in a lightsided manor.
Thats why he couldn't kill him, his emotions got in the way. Although ultimately Anakin would be their salvation, perhaps this is the force intervening, implying that it is not entirely light...