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An in-depth look at: The Prequel Trilogy Jedi and Sith Part 2

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An in-depth look at: The Prequel Trilogy Jedi and Sith Part 2

DesmoASD's Avatar


DesmoASD
10.11.2012 , 12:02 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Strong emotion as in an emotion that leads to the Dark Side. Sadness may lead to dark places for those who can't control it, but the Jedi can control their sadness because they understand that the cause of sadness (in this case death) is a natural part of life and they make peace with it.
I know what your saying and agree for the most part but any emotion can lead to the dark side even happiness.

And not all Jedi can control their sadness (Anakin for one)
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.11.2012 , 12:06 PM | #12
Just a general point.

Would you say the dark side is stronger that the light? Say an embodiment of the light and an embodiment of the dark fought, who would be the victor?

Reynaga's Avatar


Reynaga
10.11.2012 , 12:08 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Well, here is part 2 of our look at the Jedi and Sith of the Prequels. Originally I was going to discuss Jedi and Sith training methods, but I decided to cover the Jedi and Sith Codes first. I believe we need to understand the meaning behind these Codes in order to understand how they train.

Each Code has several rules as well, but I will cover the famous 'lines' of these Codes. We'll cover the Jedi Code first.

"There is no Emotion, there is Peace"
One can interpret this line in many ways. The Sith, in particular, interpret this line as the Jedi having absolutely no emotion at all. This is actually not true. In fact, Jedi display many emotions. These emotions include happiness, sadness, compassion etc. What no Emotion means is no powerful emotion. Emotions like hate and anger are emotions that they warn against. Not only do these emotions lead to the Dark Side, but they also hinder a Jedi from thinking rationally. Anger can prevent a Jedi from seeing the big picture. It can cause them to commit acts that seem like a good idea at the time, but will have greater repurcussions. The greatest being falling to the Dark Side. This line of the Code teaches the Jedi to put their minds at peace, prevent emotions from controlling their actions. That's what "there is Peace" addresses in this case. Peace of mind. A Jedi must be at peace to do what is right. A calm mind will allow the Jedi to do what is best for the galaxy.

"There is no Ignorance, there is Knowledge"
The Jedi Order had collected the greatest collection of knowledge in the galaxy. The Jedi Archives held a vast amount of knowledge, ranging from planetary cultures to information on plant life. This knowledge was collected over the course of thousands of years. But the Jedi Archives also had the greatest collection of Jedi knowledge ever. Information that would benefit many generations of Jedi, including the Jedi of the New Jedi Order. The Jedi desire knowledge for the betterment of themselves and the galaxy. This is to fulfill this line completely. A knowledgeable Jedi was not an ignorant Jedi.

"There is no Passion, there is Serenity"
Passions lead to the Dark Side. Passions such as a deep devotion to a loved one. This is a more prominant case. Love is a double-edged sword. Love can save you (in the case of Darth Vader), but it will also destroy you (in the case of Anakin Skywalker). This specific passion can cause repurcussions on a galactic scale. As we saw in the case of Anakin Skywalker, his passion for the one he loved brought the galaxy to the edge of ruin. But Luke's passion lead to the salvation of Darth Vader. A double-edged sword. This line of the Code teaches the Jedi to calm their passions. To be serene. Like emotions, passions can prevent rational thinking and lead to the Dark Side. The Jedi practice serenity of mind, body and spirit to prevent themselves from falling to the Dark Side. Serenity is gained through meditation, communing with the Light Side of the Force.

"There is no Chaos, there is Harmony"
Chaos can mean many things. Galactic chaos or chaos from within. The Jedi are keepers of peace throughout the galaxy. This combats the chaos in the galaxy. But the chaos from within is different. Inner chaos is usually caused by Dark temptations or even a difficult choice. The Jedi must be in harmony. Chaos can disrupt the inner peace of a Jedi and they must attempt to restore their inner harmony. This is vital for the Jedi to be able to fulfill their roles as peace-keepers. They must first calm the storm within before they can calm the galactic storm. Chaos within can be more dangerous than chaos on a galactic scale. The Jedi triumph over their enemies by first triumphing over themselves- by restoring their inner harmony.

"There is no Death, there is only The Force"
This is the most powerful line of the Code. The Jedi believe that after they die, they are reunited with the Force. Death is irrelevant to them. They welcome death. The Jedi understand that death is a natural part of life and that it is just another journey for them to take. A journey that everyone must take. Jedi do what they can to prevent the unnatural causes of death (such as murders or actions by the Sith). The Jedi understand that they cannot prevent all death, and that attempting to do so could take them down a dark path. When a Jedi dies, they know they have fulfilled their purpose in the galaxy and welcome their return to the Force.

While you can interpret the Jedi Code in many ways, you can't take it too literally. The Jedi Code has a hidden meaning in it, which is what I have attempted to convey here. So let's move on to the Sith Code.

You can also interpret the Sith Code in many ways. The Sith have a general interpretation of their Code, which I will attempt to convey in a similar way to the Jedi Code.

"Peace is a lie, there is only Passion"
The Sith hit the nail on the head here. The Dark Side is powered by violence and the disruption of the peace. By following their passions and the Dark Side the Sith gain power. Power over their emotions and the Dark Side. The Sith believe in following their emotions, not resisting them like the Jedi. So by following their emotions, they gain more power in the Dark Side.

"Through Passion I gain Strength"
By following their emotions and their passion, the Sith gain strength. Not only physical strength, but strength in the Dark Side as well. Many Sith are very strong, physically. But others are stronger in the Dark Side than those who seek greater physical strength. Either way, this is the first step to power.

"Through Strength I gain Power"
This type of strength is similar to the previous line. Here the Sith speak of the strength to destroy their enemies. The Sith gain more power by defeating their enemies. So by defeating their enemies they not only increase their own power, but that of the Dark Side as well.

"Through Power I gain Victory"
So by increasing their power, as well as the power of the Dark Side, the Sith gain victory over their foes. But not just their enemies. Their comes a time when the Sith are faced with a certain choice. This choice is usually presented by the Jedi or one that they love. By adhering to the Sith teachings, the Sith can conquer themselves. This is usually followed by the death of their loved one or the Jedi in question. A sort of trial, if you will. By conquering this trial, the Sith have mastered themselves as well as their emotions and have become a mighty weapon of the Dark Side. A weapon that will give the Dark Side it's victory over the Light.

"Through Victory, my chains are broken"
Victory over who? In this sense, victory can be over a former Jedi master (in the case of Exar Kun). Or victory over a Sith master, thereby cemented the young Sith Lord's place as the Dark Lord of the Sith. Since this is discussing Prequel Sith, we mean the defeat of Darth Plagueis at the hands of Darth Sidious. Through a combiation of his power in the Force and his ability to manipulate, Darth Sidious killed his master and took his place as Dark Lord of the Sith. By defeating Plagueis, Darth Sidious has broken the chains of servitude and become the greatest Sith Lord who ever lived. And he would eventually have victory over the Jedi.

"The Force shall free me"
Not exactly. The Sith, having embraced the Dark Side, have become servants to it's will. Dominated by the Dark Side forever. While they have gained considerable power over the Dark Side, it has fully dominated them. They are no longer, but the Dark Side gives them that illusion. The Sith are free from the shackles of morality, but the Dark Side will always control them.


I think I've rambled on enough. As I said before, each Code can be interpreted in different ways. I believe I have communicated the Codes in the best way possible, though. On the topic of love. We can talk around in circles on that subject. If you wish to talk about love, fine. But I would advise you that love is interpreted differently by the Jedi then by how we interpret it.

Anyway, Part 3 will come out in a few days and that will cover Jedi and Sith training techniques.

If you have a topic for a future thread in this series, you can post it here or you can message me. If I find the topic interesting, I'll be sure to mention you.
I respectfully disagree. Not with all of it, but with most of it. Having kept up with most of your posts I see a theme and its your right to your opinion but it isn't fact. Anyways, good reads, I like to see how people view what goes on in lore.
The Korbin Legacy B.C.
"When fighting monsters, one must take care not to become a monster themselves." F. N.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 12:13 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Mmmm, I agree. The Jedi do seem in harmony with the force. In that way they are not shackled but neither are they free, only it the sense that the serve freely, they are ultimately tools of the force though. The Sith struggle against the force, their shackled because they resist and therefore are forcefully suppressed. Even so, the only way to become free from the force is to rebel against it (the dark side) the Sith attempt this but ultimately fail. Perhaps the Sith code is misguided, as the Sith don't realise that their greatest enemy is the force itself...
I agree. But you can't free yourself from the Force. It's an ever present energy. That's what the Sith don't understand. They feel that they can control the Force, but in the end become the controlled. The Jedi understand this and serve willingly.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.11.2012 , 12:14 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Reynaga View Post
I respectfully disagree. Not with all of it, but with most of it. Having kept up with most of your posts I see a theme and its your right to your opinion but it isn't fact. Anyways, good reads, I like to see how people view what goes on in lore.
You dare question the wisdom of the great historian Aurbere!

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.11.2012 , 12:15 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I agree. But you can't free yourself from the Force. It's an ever present energy. That's what the Sith don't understand. They feel that they can control the Force, but in the end become the controlled. The Jedi understand this and serve willingly.
Very true, while the Sith may be able to manipulate the force, they will never be free of it and therefore can never control it indefinitely. This is a really interesting topic, can't wait for the next post!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 12:19 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by DesmoASD View Post
I know what your saying and agree for the most part but any emotion can lead to the dark side even happiness.

And not all Jedi can control their sadness (Anakin for one)
Emotion can lead to the Dark Side, which is what the Jedi teach their students. That's why they temper their emotions. Emotions can cloud judgment, which the Jedi cannot allow. Anakin wasn't really taught how to control his emotions, given that he was an older student. These emotions were already ingrained into him. That's one of the reasons Jedi only train the very young. It's because emotions develop early in a childs life.

I wouldn't say happiness leads to the Dark Side. Happiness has many forms and it depends on how a Jedi responds to a situation that creates emotion. That's what it comes down to in the end.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 12:23 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Reynaga View Post
I respectfully disagree. Not with all of it, but with most of it. Having kept up with most of your posts I see a theme and its your right to your opinion but it isn't fact. Anyways, good reads, I like to see how people view what goes on in lore.
Like I said, these Codes are interpreted differently by everyone. I tried to provide a philosophical point of view on the Jedi Code that reveals a sort of hidden meaning in it.

For the Sith Code, I put it forth from the point of view of a rising Sith.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 12:25 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Very true, while the Sith may be able to manipulate the force, they will never be free of it and therefore can never control it indefinitely. This is a really interesting topic, can't wait for the next post!
Agreed. The Sith only hurt themselves by trying to take control. I find this topic interesting as well.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 12:34 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Just a general point.

Would you say the dark side is stronger that the light? Say an embodiment of the light and an embodiment of the dark fought, who would be the victor?
This is actually an interesting question. One that I wouldn't be able to answer firmly. As for a battle between embodiments. Excluding Luke and Sidious of course. I would have to say the Light Side. The battle would be legendary for sure, but we have to look at which would last the longest. The Light Side gives strength for the long fight, while the Dark Side gives strength for a quick and dominating victory. The Light emobodiment would last longer in a fight and defeat the Dark embodiment when it has expended its energy.

This is of course my opinion, but I believe the Light Side is more powerful. It's all about perspective, though.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku