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An in-depth look at: The Prequel Trilogy Jedi and Sith Part 2

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An in-depth look at: The Prequel Trilogy Jedi and Sith Part 2

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 10:15 AM | #1
Well, here is part 2 of our look at the Jedi and Sith of the Prequels. Originally I was going to discuss Jedi and Sith training methods, but I decided to cover the Jedi and Sith Codes first. I believe we need to understand the meaning behind these Codes in order to understand how they train.

Each Code has several rules as well, but I will cover the famous 'lines' of these Codes. We'll cover the Jedi Code first.

"There is no Emotion, there is Peace"
One can interpret this line in many ways. The Sith, in particular, interpret this line as the Jedi having absolutely no emotion at all. This is actually not true. In fact, Jedi display many emotions. These emotions include happiness, sadness, compassion etc. What no Emotion means is no powerful emotion. Emotions like hate and anger are emotions that they warn against. Not only do these emotions lead to the Dark Side, but they also hinder a Jedi from thinking rationally. Anger can prevent a Jedi from seeing the big picture. It can cause them to commit acts that seem like a good idea at the time, but will have greater repurcussions. The greatest being falling to the Dark Side. This line of the Code teaches the Jedi to put their minds at peace, prevent emotions from controlling their actions. That's what "there is Peace" addresses in this case. Peace of mind. A Jedi must be at peace to do what is right. A calm mind will allow the Jedi to do what is best for the galaxy.

"There is no Ignorance, there is Knowledge"
The Jedi Order had collected the greatest collection of knowledge in the galaxy. The Jedi Archives held a vast amount of knowledge, ranging from planetary cultures to information on plant life. This knowledge was collected over the course of thousands of years. But the Jedi Archives also had the greatest collection of Jedi knowledge ever. Information that would benefit many generations of Jedi, including the Jedi of the New Jedi Order. The Jedi desire knowledge for the betterment of themselves and the galaxy. This is to fulfill this line completely. A knowledgeable Jedi was not an ignorant Jedi.

"There is no Passion, there is Serenity"
Passions lead to the Dark Side. Passions such as a deep devotion to a loved one. This is a more prominant case. Love is a double-edged sword. Love can save you (in the case of Darth Vader), but it will also destroy you (in the case of Anakin Skywalker). This specific passion can cause repurcussions on a galactic scale. As we saw in the case of Anakin Skywalker, his passion for the one he loved brought the galaxy to the edge of ruin. But Luke's passion lead to the salvation of Darth Vader. A double-edged sword. This line of the Code teaches the Jedi to calm their passions. To be serene. Like emotions, passions can prevent rational thinking and lead to the Dark Side. The Jedi practice serenity of mind, body and spirit to prevent themselves from falling to the Dark Side. Serenity is gained through meditation, communing with the Light Side of the Force.

"There is no Chaos, there is Harmony"
Chaos can mean many things. Galactic chaos or chaos from within. The Jedi are keepers of peace throughout the galaxy. This combats the chaos in the galaxy. But the chaos from within is different. Inner chaos is usually caused by Dark temptations or even a difficult choice. The Jedi must be in harmony. Chaos can disrupt the inner peace of a Jedi and they must attempt to restore their inner harmony. This is vital for the Jedi to be able to fulfill their roles as peace-keepers. They must first calm the storm within before they can calm the galactic storm. Chaos within can be more dangerous than chaos on a galactic scale. The Jedi triumph over their enemies by first triumphing over themselves- by restoring their inner harmony.

"There is no Death, there is only The Force"
This is the most powerful line of the Code. The Jedi believe that after they die, they are reunited with the Force. Death is irrelevant to them. They welcome death. The Jedi understand that death is a natural part of life and that it is just another journey for them to take. A journey that everyone must take. Jedi do what they can to prevent the unnatural causes of death (such as murders or actions by the Sith). The Jedi understand that they cannot prevent all death, and that attempting to do so could take them down a dark path. When a Jedi dies, they know they have fulfilled their purpose in the galaxy and welcome their return to the Force.

While you can interpret the Jedi Code in many ways, you can't take it too literally. The Jedi Code has a hidden meaning in it, which is what I have attempted to convey here. So let's move on to the Sith Code.

You can also interpret the Sith Code in many ways. The Sith have a general interpretation of their Code, which I will attempt to convey in a similar way to the Jedi Code.

"Peace is a lie, there is only Passion"
The Sith hit the nail on the head here. The Dark Side is powered by violence and the disruption of the peace. By following their passions and the Dark Side the Sith gain power. Power over their emotions and the Dark Side. The Sith believe in following their emotions, not resisting them like the Jedi. So by following their emotions, they gain more power in the Dark Side.

"Through Passion I gain Strength"
By following their emotions and their passion, the Sith gain strength. Not only physical strength, but strength in the Dark Side as well. Many Sith are very strong, physically. But others are stronger in the Dark Side than those who seek greater physical strength. Either way, this is the first step to power.

"Through Strength I gain Power"
This type of strength is similar to the previous line. Here the Sith speak of the strength to destroy their enemies. The Sith gain more power by defeating their enemies. So by defeating their enemies they not only increase their own power, but that of the Dark Side as well.

"Through Power I gain Victory"
So by increasing their power, as well as the power of the Dark Side, the Sith gain victory over their foes. But not just their enemies. Their comes a time when the Sith are faced with a certain choice. This choice is usually presented by the Jedi or one that they love. By adhering to the Sith teachings, the Sith can conquer themselves. This is usually followed by the death of their loved one or the Jedi in question. A sort of trial, if you will. By conquering this trial, the Sith have mastered themselves as well as their emotions and have become a mighty weapon of the Dark Side. A weapon that will give the Dark Side it's victory over the Light.

"Through Victory, my chains are broken"
Victory over who? In this sense, victory can be over a former Jedi master (in the case of Exar Kun). Or victory over a Sith master, thereby cemented the young Sith Lord's place as the Dark Lord of the Sith. Since this is discussing Prequel Sith, we mean the defeat of Darth Plagueis at the hands of Darth Sidious. Through a combiation of his power in the Force and his ability to manipulate, Darth Sidious killed his master and took his place as Dark Lord of the Sith. By defeating Plagueis, Darth Sidious has broken the chains of servitude and become the greatest Sith Lord who ever lived. And he would eventually have victory over the Jedi.

"The Force shall free me"
Not exactly. The Sith, having embraced the Dark Side, have become servants to it's will. Dominated by the Dark Side forever. While they have gained considerable power over the Dark Side, it has fully dominated them. They are no longer, but the Dark Side gives them that illusion. The Sith are free from the shackles of morality, but the Dark Side will always control them.


I think I've rambled on enough. As I said before, each Code can be interpreted in different ways. I believe I have communicated the Codes in the best way possible, though. On the topic of love. We can talk around in circles on that subject. If you wish to talk about love, fine. But I would advise you that love is interpreted differently by the Jedi then by how we interpret it.

Anyway, Part 3 will come out in a few days and that will cover Jedi and Sith training techniques.

If you have a topic for a future thread in this series, you can post it here or you can message me. If I find the topic interesting, I'll be sure to mention you.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.11.2012 , 10:48 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
"There is no Death, there is only The Force"
This is the most powerful line of the Code. The Jedi believe that after they die, they are reunited with the Force. Death is irrelevant to them. They welcome death. The Jedi understand that death is a natural part of life and that it is just another journey for them to take. A journey that everyone must take. Jedi do what they can to prevent the unnatural causes of death (such as murders or actions by the Sith). The Jedi understand that they cannot prevent all death, and that attempting to do so could take them down a dark path. When a Jedi dies, they know they have fulfilled their purpose in the galaxy and welcome their return to the Force.
The sole reason why killing Sith is so much more fun than killing Jedi. Sith are like "You can't possibly defeat me!" and then you make them eat your words, while the Jedi are like "Kill me, see if I care" - sucks out the fun

Just thought I'd make general comments on the Sith code, you seem to be pretty down with the Jedi code, and build on what you've already said

Quote:
"Peace is a lie, there is only Passion"
The Sith hit the nail on the head here. The Dark Side is powered by violence and the disruption of the peace. By following their passions and the Dark Side the Sith gain power. Power over their emotions and the Dark Side. The Sith believe in following their emotions, not resisting them like the Jedi. So by following their emotions, they gain more power in the Dark Side.
When they say 'peace is a lie' I think they mean that they're will always be internal conflict, and external, and you have to accept and embrace that. For the Jedi they constantly struggle against their emotions, and so internally they will never be at complete peace. Even peace itself, must sometimes be achieved through war, Jedi sometimes act as warmongers to achieve peace - but is it really peace? Internal conflicts remain, and the dark side will always have a presence, no matter how many times they repress it.

Quote:
"Through Passion I gain Strength"
By following their emotions and their passion, the Sith gain strength. Not only physical strength, but strength in the Dark Side as well. Many Sith are very strong, physically. But others are stronger in the Dark Side than those who seek greater physical strength. Either way, this is the first step to power.
Even in battle, unleashing their emotions on their enemy (even in the case of the Jedi) gives them strength. But passions can also be a weakness. Unrefined it leads to sloppy attacks and blurred vision, leaving them easy to exploit. As they Jedi say, it clouds your vision. (an example would be Anakin vs Obi Wan, one of the reasons he loses is because his passions were unrefined - while Vader is in complete control) The whole concept of Dun Moch - attacking with words, is based around this, aggravating the enemy in order to enrage them.

Quote:
"Through Strength I gain Power"
This type of strength is similar to the previous line. Here the Sith speak of the strength to destroy their enemies. The Sith gain more power by defeating their enemies. So by defeating their enemies they not only increase their own power, but that of the Dark Side as well.

"Through Power I gain Victory"
So by increasing their power, as well as the power of the Dark Side, the Sith gain victory over their foes. But not just their enemies. Their comes a time when the Sith are faced with a certain choice. This choice is usually presented by the Jedi or one that they love. By adhering to the Sith teachings, the Sith can conquer themselves. This is usually followed by the death of their loved one or the Jedi in question. A sort of trial, if you will. By conquering this trial, the Sith have mastered themselves as well as their emotions and have become a mighty weapon of the Dark Side. A weapon that will give the Dark Side it's victory over the Light.
These to lines are not just about overcoming enemies, and defeating them in battle. But rising above, and purging the weak. Weakness is not accepted in the Empire and the Sith code helps to exterminate it, making the Empire as a whole stronger and more powerful.

Quote:
"Through Victory, my chains are broken"
Victory over who? In this sense, victory can be over a former Jedi master (in the case of Exar Kun). Or victory over a Sith master, thereby cemented the young Sith Lord's place as the Dark Lord of the Sith. Since this is discussing Prequel Sith, we mean the defeat of Darth Plagueis at the hands of Darth Sidious. Through a combiation of his power in the Force and his ability to manipulate, Darth Sidious killed his master and took his place as Dark Lord of the Sith. By defeating Plagueis, Darth Sidious has broken the chains of servitude and become the greatest Sith Lord who ever lived. And he would eventually have victory over the Jedi.
Again, in general, victory over the weak. Basically 'survival of the fittest'

Quote:
"The Force shall free me"
Not exactly. The Sith, having embraced the Dark Side, have become servants to it's will. Dominated by the Dark Side forever. While they have gained considerable power over the Dark Side, it has fully dominated them. They are no longer, but the Dark Side gives them that illusion. The Sith are free from the shackles of morality, but the Dark Side will always control them
I would disagree. This line is not talking specifically about being freed from the force, but freed from restrictions, placed on them by others and themselves - to achieve perfect strength and power and to be freed from the shackles of the weak. The SI storyline is a perfect example of this, he begins as a slave, but through the dark side of the force breaks free of these shackles, rises above his superiors and becomes a powerful figure in the Empire.

Does the dark side control all Sith? I wouldn't say so, yes it does many, but this is true of Jedi as well and all force users. They will always to subject to the will of the force, which many believe to be a Sentient being (possible an incarnation of the Celestials) that manipulates the galaxy. But a Sith who achieves ultimate freedom can change this, only through the dark side can this be achieved. Darth Plagueis for example, who with the help of Darth Sidious managed to take control of the force and shift it massively to the dark side. Such a feat is evidence that the most powerful Sith can completely free themselves - although I agree it shackles more often than not (e.g. Darth Nihilius)

Anyway, great post - can't wait to see more!

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.11.2012 , 11:18 AM | #3
SO.....MUCH.......READING! lol I'm just messing with you. Good stuff.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 11:36 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
The sole reason why killing Sith is so much more fun than killing Jedi. Sith are like "You can't possibly defeat me!" and then you make them eat your words, while the Jedi are like "Kill me, see if I care" - sucks out the fun

Just thought I'd make general comments on the Sith code, you seem to be pretty down with the Jedi code, and build on what you've already said



When they say 'peace is a lie' I think they mean that they're will always be internal conflict, and external, and you have to accept and embrace that. For the Jedi they constantly struggle against their emotions, and so internally they will never be at complete peace. Even peace itself, must sometimes be achieved through war, Jedi sometimes act as warmongers to achieve peace - but is it really peace? Internal conflicts remain, and the dark side will always have a presence, no matter how many times they repress it.



Even in battle, unleashing their emotions on their enemy (even in the case of the Jedi) gives them strength. But passions can also be a weakness. Unrefined it leads to sloppy attacks and blurred vision, leaving them easy to exploit. As they Jedi say, it clouds your vision. (an example would be Anakin vs Obi Wan, one of the reasons he loses is because his passions were unrefined - while Vader is in complete control) The whole concept of Dun Moch - attacking with words, is based around this, aggravating the enemy in order to enrage them.


These to lines are not just about overcoming enemies, and defeating them in battle. But rising above, and purging the weak. Weakness is not accepted in the Empire and the Sith code helps to exterminate it, making the Empire as a whole stronger and more powerful.



Again, in general, victory over the weak. Basically 'survival of the fittest'



I would disagree. This line is not talking specifically about being freed from the force, but freed from restrictions, placed on them by others and themselves - to achieve perfect strength and power and to be freed from the shackles of the weak. The SI storyline is a perfect example of this, he begins as a slave, but through the dark side of the force breaks free of these shackles, rises above his superiors and becomes a powerful figure in the Empire.

Does the dark side control all Sith? I wouldn't say so, yes it does many, but this is true of Jedi as well and all force users. They will always to subject to the will of the force, which many believe to be a Sentient being (possible an incarnation of the Celestials) that manipulates the galaxy. But a Sith who achieves ultimate freedom can change this, only through the dark side can this be achieved. Darth Plagueis for example, who with the help of Darth Sidious managed to take control of the force and shift it massively to the dark side. Such a feat is evidence that the most powerful Sith can completely free themselves - although I agree it shackles more often than not (e.g. Darth Nihilius)

Anyway, great post - can't wait to see more!
I was talking about about the Sith Code from the perspective of a Sith. With a little deep thinking thrown in. I wanted to do the Sith Code differently from the Jedi Code. I did the Jedi Code from a philosophical perspective, where with the Sith Code I did it differently. I wanted to do it like a rising through the ranks scenario. From the perspective of a Sith trying to become the master. That's what I was going for with the Sith Code, but you did a very good job that approach. I would have written the same had I wanted to do it like the Jedi Code.

The Sith will always be subservient to the Dark Side. They are freed from the shackles of morality, but they are basically put back into shackles by the Dark Side. A Sith can master the Dark Side, but it also masters them. It's a symbiotic relationship where, in the end, the Dark Side wins. A symbiotic relationship that gives the Sith power, but also gives power to the Dark Side.

Anyway, thank you and look forward to Part 3!
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 11:37 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
SO.....MUCH.......READING! lol I'm just messing with you. Good stuff.
You should try writing it. I think it took about two hours to get everything down. lol.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.11.2012 , 11:46 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
The Sith will always be subservient to the Dark Side. They are freed from the shackles of morality, but they are basically put back into shackles by the Dark Side. A Sith can master the Dark Side, but it also masters them. It's a symbiotic relationship where, in the end, the Dark Side wins. A symbiotic relationship that gives the Sith power, but also gives power to the Dark Side.
Indeed, although I'd say the same for the Jedi. Ultimately they are shackled by the force, through how they use it. And the force is using them, to fulfill its own goals. Like I said, the force is a sentient being (or at least I think so), force users are extensions of it. I talked about Plagueis and Sidious attempting to control it, after this happened the force struck back by creating Anakin Skywalker - the Chosen One - to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force. I guess you could say the force is more light side attuned, so arguably it has more power over Jedi than Sith - but this is all just speculation.

I suggest you read Darth Plagueis (if you haven't already), its very enlightening concerning the light and dark side and the force in general.

DesmoASD's Avatar


DesmoASD
10.11.2012 , 11:51 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
This is actually not true. In fact, Jedi display many emotions. These emotions include happiness, sadness, compassion etc. What no Emotion means is no powerful emotion. Emotions like hate and anger are emotions that they warn against.
So happiness is not a strong emotion? sadness also leads to some pretty dark places irl
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 11:54 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Indeed, although I'd say the same for the Jedi. Ultimately they are shackled by the force, through how they use it. And the force is using them, to fulfill its own goals. Like I said, the force is a sentient being (or at least I think so), force users are extensions of it. I talked about Plagueis and Sidious attempting to control it, after this happened the force struck back by creating Anakin Skywalker - the Chosen One - to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the force. I guess you could say the force is more light side attuned, so arguably it has more power over Jedi than Sith - but this is all just speculation.

I suggest you read Darth Plagueis (if you haven't already), its very enlightening concerning the light and dark side and the force in general.
I wouldn't say they are shackled by it in the same sense as the Sith are. With the Jedi, you can leave whenever you want. The Sith will kill you if you try to leave. In that sense the Jedi aren't as shackled. When it comes to the Force. I would say that the Force works through the Jedi. They understand that they are servants of its will and are entirely okay with it. The Sith, on the other hand, try to master the Force but instead become even more subservient to the Dark Side. So you could say the Force is more Light Side. I believe it as well. Why else do the good guys always win? Because the Force wants the keepers of the peace to win. That's my opinion, but the trend of Star Wars seems to back that up.

I haven't read the whole of Plagueis yet. I've only been able to find excerpts of it and it's not at my local library yet. But if I do find it, I will read it.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 11:55 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by DesmoASD View Post
So happiness is not a strong emotion? sadness also leads to some pretty dark places irl
Strong emotion as in an emotion that leads to the Dark Side. Sadness may lead to dark places for those who can't control it, but the Jedi can control their sadness because they understand that the cause of sadness (in this case death) is a natural part of life and they make peace with it.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.11.2012 , 12:01 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I wouldn't say they are shackled by it in the same sense as the Sith are. With the Jedi, you can leave whenever you want. The Sith will kill you if you try to leave. In that sense the Jedi aren't as shackled. When it comes to the Force. I would say that the Force works through the Jedi. They understand that they are servants of its will and are entirely okay with it. The Sith, on the other hand, try to master the Force but instead become even more subservient to the Dark Side. So you could say the Force is more Light Side. I believe it as well. Why else do the good guys always win? Because the Force wants the keepers of the peace to win. That's my opinion, but the trend of Star Wars seems to back that up.
Mmmm, I agree. The Jedi do seem in harmony with the force. In that way they are not shackled but neither are they free, only it the sense that the serve freely, they are ultimately tools of the force though. The Sith struggle against the force, their shackled because they resist and therefore are forcefully suppressed. Even so, the only way to become free from the force is to rebel against it (the dark side) the Sith attempt this but ultimately fail. Perhaps the Sith code is misguided, as the Sith don't realise that their greatest enemy is the force itself...