Judging the game too harsh

WoW never had 10M paid subscriptions. They peaked with ~6M paid subscriptions coupled with 6M pay to access accounts on Asian servers. So for WoW, you have to discuss it as two separate WoW populations. The Asian one can be compared to other Asian MMOs (like Aion, in Asia not the west), but not normal subscription or freemium MMOs in the west.

I never said WoW was a niche game. It's a "populist" game, played by a very wide demographic from hardcore raiders to grandparents, to kids, and every segment between. And it's strongest success factor remaining today is broad popular appeal coupled with player investment that people hesitate to walk away from (even though it is only a virtual investment)

What I did say though is that if WoW launched in todays player base, it would suffer very similar attrition as MMOs launching in this modern era (the last 24-36 months). WoW benefited from being a populist MMO releasing at a time when there was ample opportunity to expand the player base in an environment of limited competition. Said landscape does not exist today.

We agree on EVE, so nothing further to be said. It's a niche game for hardcore sandbox and PvP. It serves a valid and persistent segment of the player base, and appeals little to those outside these segments.

Here is the thing. We don`t know . We assume we know, based on some players leaving and some rage over some pandas. But, ultimately, we don`t know if WOW would flop. Statistics go only so far. Statistics claimed WOW is impossible and we can all see it.

And we will continue to not know until we`ll see Titan at the 3 and 6 months marks. Assuming it`s a hit. Assuming they close down WOW for it. Assuming many things.

The honest "prediction" is a perfect 50-50% split between huge hit or "TOR hit".

This game is casual, that game is hardcore. This game has a money grubbing corporation behind it, this one is about quality... blah blah blah blah people spend far to much time complaining online then anything else and I don't need a statistic to prove that.

At the end of the day life is only perception and this applies to gaming too. You only get out of a game what you take from it.

I've played WoW, GW2, SWTOR, EvE, LOTRO and several other MMOs and while I can't speak for everyone obviously or throw statistics at you I can tell you that I never regret the time I spent on any of these games because I only play them to have fun. That's what games are for right? To have fun, not fuss over what isn't or what could be or what wont be.... life is way to short to be a glass-half-empty person.

wow had 14.5 million subscriptions at one point, however it was discovered most of those were from people who had 4 and 5 accounts.That alone says something.I own 4 wow accounts and I keep them all active.Yeah i play wow, why? because the other games I thought I might have liked simply are unplayable compared to wow.In wow I run 2 lvl 25+ guilds with 1700+ people in them, I have 300-400 quit every day and more to join, in fact we have discussed bringing up a 3rd and naming it accordingly.

here? I keep my account and my sons account.He wont log in so his account will soon be history.Another star wars fan leaving swtor.Why would he want to? because he can play wow in the time he has available, he doesnt have the time to sit at his pc 24-7 for a broken game and he constantly says that.He is 14 yrs old, goes to school, is doing early colledge while in school and only gets 3 hours a night to play a mmo and considers this one a waste of effort when he is constantly cc'd and can do nothing about it because he simply lacks the gear wich he added up and wont attain for longer than he wants to put in.The game should be a escape from his day to day grind, not a job or chore he feels he has to do in order to BEGIN to play.

I'm not sure why it's important WHY players left...it's not as if the player reviews across the net are glowing. They are pretty resoundingly negative across the board.

They only concentrate on the bad naturally, and there is plenty to like in this game...but that fact can't be ignored. It's really hard for me to look at the real data, look at the player feedback, look at the losses and not see that sometimes a carrot is just a carrot.

I feel like I'm being told it's an apple.

WoW has Blizzard who are experienced in developing multiplayer games as well as having a large fan base who will play anything they make.

TOR is ok but its not smooth enough to be taken seriously and thats the problem, it can just come down to something as simple as how the character feels to move around and how much you can see and do in the game environment. SWTOR is ok in this but controls feel a bit jumpy and weird at times, targeting is terrible and takes a bit of getting used to. WoW doesnt have this, when you click something its clicked and when you move around you go where you want to go without jumping about and people skipping around you in pvp (unless theyre a rogue sprinting lol) the netcode or whatever just needs work and they need to scrub up on targeting/buff displays etc atm they are very "hardcore" in that you have to look at buff bars a bit too much. I think some kind of scrolling combat text would solve this as well as like the "snared" text that appears over slowed allies/enemies in WoW as atm again its a bit too hardcore in that you have to look at the legs or buffbar to know if anyones snared and its a bit much tbh if you want to bring in new blood


also space combat is a joke, i cant imagine why anyone would play it. if you want to play Starfox go DL an emulator and some roms as the N64 game is better than TOR space combat and im not just saying that I mean literally a 15+ year old Nintendo 64 game is better than space combat in this game and thats a joke

I dont think its a issue of focusing only on the negative, but there is alot of negative to focus on for sure.The good things about the game are far outwieghed by the bad things in it.

Red/blue/white ribbons all over someones screen is game breaking.A brand new i7 w/ dual video cards stuttering and lagging everytime one goes into huttball is game breaking.And before anyone says its the pc, I have 4 i7s and a i5 in my house, the game runs the same on all of them, my rigs arent $5.00 pc's either they are all equipped with n52tes, ssd drives, dual monitors, even the lap tops are top of the line, one is even a sony and that one runs it the worst, it overheats if it runs swtor more than a hour.

Now lets discuss the dual monitor issue, disable one and the game is playable.I can only run 1 copy of swtor on a pc yet I can run 20 copys of wow at maxed out settings on that same pc.In fact www.youtube.com/minrathicus shows me doing just that in multiple games w/ no lag, no graphical issues and tearing people up.Look closely in the Horses video, notice Im dual boxing 2 deathknights, also look at zone 4, need for speed world and the other mmo's I put up on video.

also the previous poster has a point as well, guided rail space combat? The reason I signed up in this game was STAR WARS..not to swing nerfed flashlights at god moded characters.Saber users are pretty much fodder for anyone with a gun, so its like playing a game of halo with masochists who get off on being beating to a pulp.

pvp = spam stuns, spam roots, spam dd period.Its like the infiltrators in daoc, dragonfang chain trumps all.You can break out of 1 stun chain per 1 minute yet theres 10 other ones right behind it that are going to get spammed onto you so you wont move but 1 step before your whole life bar is empty.wrong answer for a mmo thats trying to live.

I don't personally believe in an across-the-board 60-70% attrition rate for MMO's in general (or OLD REPUBLIC specifically). Every game is different.

The point I wanted to make here is that if EA had only sold 100,000 boxes initially, we would have spent this year heading (up!) to 350,000. If they had sold 500,000 boxes, we would have spent the year heading (slightly down) to 350,000. In point of fact they sold a little under 2.5 million boxes, so of course heading to 350,000 looks like a major failure. But that 75 million dollar (wholesale) income probably kept our doors open.

The only reason I'm speaking up is that the devs deserve love, not flames. They made a good game. The rest of this is marketing and licensing and hype.

Hey, I run BF3 on max settings and get an average of 45fps. I feel you there. This game studders even on minimum settings, before the latest patch it would only studder badly on max settings.

I personally do not agree on the bad outweighing the good here. I think there is enough good to counter the bad for the most part, much like SWG. I gave this game a solid 6.5 and I still think it's one of the best games on the market despite its glaring weaknesses....and trust me, I'm a pretty harsh critic of the game.

My gf is the perfect example of the fickle nomadic gamer. she has contributed to the box sales of almost every game gaming websites say are good. They all collect dust. Every new game that comes out, every system she rushes out to buy. She bought a dsi when she already had a lite, but never used either. A 3ds with street fighter and Zelda OOT, never even passed the first temple yet. All pokemon games from pearl to white, still on the first badges. has a ps3, 360, Nes, gameboy, snes, wii. Doesnt use any of them. Gonna buy a Wiiyou and that wont get any use. Although she likes Halo and Skyrim. How many times does gamefly advertise 5 crappy games for 20 bucks and she'll buy them solely because they are cheap...and not play any.
These "gamers" are the reason no new games have any staying power. They only want the flavor of the month so dont act like box sales have anything to do with game quality