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An in-depth look at: The Prequel Trilogy Jedi and Sith Part 1

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An in-depth look at: The Prequel Trilogy Jedi and Sith Part 1

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.07.2012 , 06:39 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Alright so after reading this first wave of posts I decided to make an addendum.

The Rule of Two increased the power of the Sith exponentially. Since the Banite line of Sith remains somewhat mysterious, as do there actions, we can only assume that each subsequent apprentice was more powerful than the master. If not then the Rule of Two would have failed. We know it did not because Darth Sidious became the number one Sith Lord that will ever exist. The Rule of Two created better Sith than any war could have because of the way it was designed. While war and death increase the power of the Dark Side, the Banite Sith would be trained in ways that would increase their natural connection to the Dark Side. Obviously it worked because of Sidious. Yes, i use that argument many times but it is a good argument.

A misconception that the OP did not apparently make clear enough was the fact that times of peace increase the power of the Jedi. War gives them martial skills, but it does not increase their overall power. What we do see is their knowledge of Lightsaber combat increasing, as well as their knowledge of combat tactics. Peace makes a Jedi strong. Connecting with the Light Side of the Force when it is strongest. During the era of peace, the Jedi Order perfected the Lightsaber forms and studied the many mysteries of the Force. What resulted from this era of peace was the greatest collection of Jedi ever seen. Yoda had prepared them for an inevitable confrontation with the old Sith Empire. But he could never prepare them for an enemy that had done the exact same thing he had done. The Banite Sith prepared for a confrontation as well, and they won. Because Yoda had not prepared for something like Sidious, but Sidious was preparing for a fight with him. That's why they lost. That's how Sidious destroyed the Jedi.

Now for the topic of comparing certain members of the PTO to the ORJ. Obviously not every PT Jedi beats every OR Jedi. You can't compare an OR Knight to a PT Padawan. Just like you can't compare a PT master to an OR Knight. It doesn't work that way. Your comparing apples and oranges. What you can do is compare PT and OR masters (or someone equivalent to the master level ie. Anakin Skywalker). And when you do so, PT wins every time. The masters of the PTO are the best.. Second only to the NJO masters, but I believe the PT would give the NJO a run for their money. Without Luke of course. No one compares to Luke.

I hope this answers some questions. If you have any other questions just ask.

And as always. If you have a topic you would like to see in the future, you can post it here or send me a message.
Good stuff. On the topic of comparing PTO masters to OR masters, you're almost right. While MOST of those guys are better then MOST of the OR Jedi masters, not all of them. Let's not use absolutes. As Obi-wan would say; "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." People like Coleman Trebor (the guys who got his face shot off by Jango in Ep. 2 lol), Stass Allie, and Kit Fisto couldn't beat people like Satele Shan or Revan.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.07.2012 , 06:41 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Good stuff. On the topic of comparing PTO masters to OR masters, you're almost right. While MOST of those guys are better then MOST of the OR Jedi masters, not all of them. Let's not use absolutes. As Obi-wan would say; "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." People like Coleman Trebor (the guys who got his face shot off by Jango in Ep. 2 lol), Stass Allie, and Kit Fisto couldn't beat people like Satele Shan or Revan.
I would agree on Coleman Trebor and Stass Allie(only because I don't know much about her), but Kit Fisto was a very powerful Jedi Master and was a master of the Shii-Cho form to its greatest extent.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.07.2012 , 06:44 PM | #23
Oh, and here's something I think would be worthy of a thread: Top lightsaber duelists of the Jedi pre-Order 66. This is an interesting subject 'cause I always thought Mace Windu was the best duelist, but appearantly guys like Yoda, Qui-gon Jinn, and Dooku where at the same level. And on top of that, Darth Maul beat Gui-gon in a duel. It's be neat to sort out these guys best to worst.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.07.2012 , 06:46 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I would agree on Coleman Trebor and Stass Allie(only because I don't know much about her), but Kit Fisto was a very powerful Jedi Master and was a master of the Shii-Cho form to its greatest extent.
True, but his lightsaber form wasn't very effective against a single opponent weilding a single lightsaber.

But regardless, we've come to an understanding.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.07.2012 , 06:50 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Oh, and here's something I think would be worthy of a thread: Top lightsaber duelists of the Jedi pre-Order 66. This is an interesting subject 'cause I always thought Mace Windu was the best duelist, but appearantly guys like Yoda, Qui-gon Jinn, and Dooku where at the same level. And on top of that, Darth Maul beat Gui-gon in a duel. It's be neat to sort out these guys best to worst.
Mace Windu is one of the greatest duelists ever. A very rare few could ever match or defeat him in a duel. Yoda, Qui-Gon and Count Dooku are some of them.

On the topic of Qui-Gon's death. He didn't die due to lack of skill. He died because of the circumstance. His age and the tight quarters were taken advantage of by the young agile Sith Lord. His form was also not a preferred form for close quarters. Qui-Gon had mastered Ataru form to the extent that he had eliminated the form's weakness to blaster fire. But he was past his prime during that fight. Later in life, Qui-Gon focused more on the philosophy of the Living Force and preparing his apprentice for the Jedi trials.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.07.2012 , 06:52 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Mace Windu is one of the greatest duelists ever. A very rare few could ever match or defeat him in a duel. Yoda, Qui-Gon and Count Dooku are some of them.

On the topic of Qui-Gon's death. He didn't die due to lack of skill. He died because of the circumstance. His age and the tight quarters were taken advantage of by the young agile Sith Lord. His form was also not a preferred form for close quarters. Qui-Gon had mastered Ataru form to the extent that he had eliminated the form's weakness to blaster fire. But he was past his prime during that fight. Later in life, Qui-Gon focused more on the philosophy of the Living Force and preparing his apprentice for the Jedi trials.
Fact. Wookieepedia supported fact right there.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.07.2012 , 06:54 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
True, but his lightsaber form wasn't very effective against a single opponent weilding a single lightsaber.

But regardless, we've come to an understanding.
True, but we have seen him show great prowess with a Lightsaber and was one of the Order's most skilled. His only limitation was the weakness of Form I. It should be noted that Kit Fisto could defeat foes that used multiple weapons like Grievous, as well as Revan. Revan used two Lightsabers as well as the standard single Lightsaber. I'm not sure which he preferred. But if he went dual-wield, he'd lose. But there is a good chance he'd lose anyway. But that's not the point. The point it that Kit Fisto was one of the Order's best swordsmen.

I will discuss the PT masters capabilities in part 2 of this thread.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.07.2012 , 06:58 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Fact. Wookieepedia supported fact right there.
I should also touch on Darth Maul's skill as well. Darth Maul is one of the most skilled Lightsaber duelists of his time. He was very proficient user of the double-bladed Lightsaber that gave him an edge in battle. In my opinion, Qui-Gon in his prime could have beaten Maul. My opinion of course, but it is backed up by the fact that he could duel Windu as an equal. And we know Windu could take Maul to school. What with shatterpoint and Vaapad.

But Darth Maul is a very skilled warrior and should be recognized as such.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

grandmthethird's Avatar


grandmthethird
10.07.2012 , 08:26 PM | #29
I'm sorry but it still does not make sense. The Jedi of the PT era were the best of the best, yet at the end of ROTS there was only two of them left. I mean they failed on an epic scale, really they should be considered worst Jedi ever. So to say TOR Jedi are not as powerful, well if I was aTOR Jedi I would be insulted.
"Hope has a vicious enemy called fate"

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.07.2012 , 08:32 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by grandmthethird View Post
I'm sorry but it still does not make sense. The Jedi of the PT era were the best of the best, yet at the end of ROTS there was only two of them left. I mean they failed on an epic scale, really they should be considered worst Jedi ever. So to say TOR Jedi are not as powerful, well if I was aTOR Jedi I would be insulted.
The second installment of this series covered that. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=533833

Any questions?

If you were a TOR Jedi you would be insulted, briefly. Then Mace Windu would smack some sense into you.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus