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Merc is TERRIBLE


Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
10.26.2012 , 04:43 PM | #531
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
still... its also channeled, and the range point is moot because this is a mellee heavy game...
Tank assassins also get an uninterruptable force lightning channel. Which can be made to reach 30m with buffs. Kind of strange that ranged classes can't get the same with talents since melee hit just as hard or harder than ranged. And staying at range is laughable in this game with all the roots, slows, jumps, stealth and stuns it has.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
10.27.2012 , 12:00 AM | #532
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
That AOE stun doesn't last very long. The only reason it works is because (ONCE AGAIN) PTs have insane burst. I mean...they not only have better spells, but they have a dps cooldown that makes them crit more for 15 secs. If a PT really wants you to die, you are going down. If Mercs had Carbonize they wouldn't be in any better of a position because the 1 tracer you could get off in that time wouldn't help you enough.

PVE fights are mostly about sustained, single target, damage with the occasional add that needs to be burst down. You can't compare that to PVP.

In PVP you fight intelligent human beings, not computers. While good sustained damage is fine for a Boss mob who will not react to you as long as the tank holds aggro, people are much different. To validate your position all the players would not only have to leave you alone, but also just stand there eating your missiles to the face. THAT WON'T HAPPEN.

Players are going to run away, LOS you, or counter attack AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE BURST ABILITY TO KILL THEM BEFORE THEY REALIZE THEY ARE IN TROUBLE YOU ARE NOT GONNA KILL A GOOD PLAYER. We don't even have a finishing move like Snipers, Sins, and Marauders. In addition to that, PVP environments require a lot more switching targets than PVE raids. You know what happens when a merc switches targets a lot? His heat goes up and his DPS goes down. I have 27 barrels and optimized PVE gear consisting of mostly 63 mods with a few 61 mods left to upgrade. I do A LOT of raiding, and I can assure you that you cannot compare it to PVP. Not even a little bit.

PVE dps is all about your burst damage and AOE damage. Mediocre sustained and ok burst won't get you anywhere.

Except you SPECIFICALLY said our sustained damage was poor, even if we were allowed to free cast. Now you're saying this isn't the case, and then you change your mind at the end and say we have mediocre sustained. Make up your mind dude. (btw, you're wrong when you say it's mediocre. Our sustained damage is very very good). The problem is the massive discrepancy between our damage potential when allowed to free cast and our damage potential when someone is actually on us because everything in the tree is tied to Grav Round/Tracer Missile. That's why we keep asking for some sort of tactical interrupt immunity. Because three grav rounds, a buffed full auto, with HiB > DR finisher is going to put pretty much anyone in the dirt.

Thank you for the lecture on the difference between PVE and PVP DPS. Having raided since January, and having PVPd for a few months now, I had no clue that they weren't the same exact thing. Saying our sustained DPS is poor even when allowed to free cast is still by far the most ridiculous thing you've said in this thread. Believe it or not when you're casting from the edge of the furball people WILL sit there and take missiles/grav rounds to the face. It's when they catch on to you that they do something about it. And usually by "something" I mean "leap to you and completely shut you down before just flat out killing you".

Also Carbonize buys them seconds, and seconds are what makes the difference in PVP. Why else do people complain so much about abilities which last for such a short amount of time. Is it a GREAT defense against melee they have? Not as good as some, but discounting the AoE stun is just silly. I'll grant you that the crit chance cooldown is also pretty BS compared to our offensive cooldowns. I have no clue why Tech Override's effect doesn't last 12 seconds. It wouldn't even be all that OP, but the awesomeness you could do for those 12 seconds.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

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Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
10.27.2012 , 12:18 AM | #533
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Except you SPECIFICALLY said our sustained damage was poor, even if we were allowed to free cast. Now you're saying this isn't the case, and then you change your mind at the end and say we have mediocre sustained. Make up your mind dude. (btw, you're wrong when you say it's mediocre. Our sustained damage is very very good). The problem is the massive discrepancy between our damage potential when allowed to free cast and our damage potential when someone is actually on us because everything in the tree is tied to Grav Round/Tracer Missile. That's why we keep asking for some sort of tactical interrupt immunity. Because three grav rounds, a buffed full auto, with HiB > DR finisher is going to put pretty much anyone in the dirt.

Thank you for the lecture on the difference between PVE and PVP DPS. Having raided since January, and having PVPd for a few months now, I had no clue that they weren't the same exact thing. Saying our sustained DPS is poor even when allowed to free cast is still by far the most ridiculous thing you've said in this thread. Believe it or not when you're casting from the edge of the furball people WILL sit there and take missiles/grav rounds to the face. It's when they catch on to you that they do something about it. And usually by "something" I mean "leap to you and completely shut you down before just flat out killing you".

Also Carbonize buys them seconds, and seconds are what makes the difference in PVP. Why else do people complain so much about abilities which last for such a short amount of time. Is it a GREAT defense against melee they have? Not as good as some, but discounting the AoE stun is just silly. I'll grant you that the crit chance cooldown is also pretty BS compared to our offensive cooldowns. I have no clue why Tech Override's effect doesn't last 12 seconds. It wouldn't even be all that OP, but the awesomeness you could do for those 12 seconds.
Either I just went over your head or you didn't read very carefully. You cannot compare PVE susstained to PVP because you switch targets too much which ruins heat management. There. That simple enough for ya?

Philastra's Avatar


Philastra
10.27.2012 , 11:20 AM | #534
Still not a word from Devs..
It only takes one candle to scare away the dark, or just hire a Bounty Hunter....

Essence_of_Light's Avatar


Essence_of_Light
10.27.2012 , 12:38 PM | #535
Quote: Originally Posted by philastra View Post
still not a word from devs..
^

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Theodulus's Avatar


Theodulus
10.27.2012 , 01:22 PM | #536
Quote: Originally Posted by Philastra View Post
Still not a word from Devs..
No devs working on class balance and PvP anymore. It's all about the gambling boxes now. ToFN is just as bugged as Dalborra now. It's impossible to get the daily PvP mission done.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
10.27.2012 , 01:24 PM | #537
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
still... its also channeled, and the range point is moot because this is a mellee heavy game...
Look, I agree that Merc/Commando is in a pretty bad place right now but gutting Master Strike again isn't the answer.

xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
10.27.2012 , 01:30 PM | #538
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Look, I agree that Merc/Commando is in a pretty bad place right now but gutting Master Strike again isn't the answer.
no i dont want master strike gutted, im just poiting out that both are channeled, and both suffer from the same thing, can be LOS or moved away , whatever, so both should be uninterrutable.

ObiWanJabroni's Avatar


ObiWanJabroni
10.27.2012 , 06:46 PM | #539
One change in addition to the others I've seen mentioned is I'd like to be able to drop mortar volley around myself. As far as I know, every other aoe can be dropped anywhere...I just don't see the point as to why mortar volley has a minimum distance requirement. Its not much, but it would give the other classes something to think about.

Can anyone think of another aoe damage ability (aside from the merc mirror) that can't be dropped right on top of your character? I'm generally talking about aoe with the green targeting you place on the ground yourself, not the kind that damages 2 or more people around the player you have targeted.
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klham's Avatar


klham
10.27.2012 , 08:28 PM | #540
I've thought of that too, but it might be stretching the science-fiction aspect of the game if we're able to launch mortars directly onto our own position without taking damage. I *like* that we're the most "mortal" (i.e. non-magical) of all the ACs (commandos are even more plain-jane human than Vanguard or Gunslinger) so if we're buffed with new abilities/utility then I think they should be in that vein, because it's part of the particular charisma of the commando AC (in my opinion).

The real issue behind the range constraint on our AoE heavy-hitter is the exact same issue behind some of the other limitations of the AC's performance in PvP: the lack of a quick escape / gap-creator. I've suggested a dive-&-roll escape mechanic (a defensive version of the Vanguard's 'Storm', in which the player targets an area on the floor in a manner similar to targeting a huttball pass, and changes position with a near-instant animation like the Gunslinger rolling into cover). The stock-strike root, a quick dive-&-roll, and a mortar volley would work nicely in a lot of situations imo. Either that, or put a root on the knock back. Better yet, all of the above.