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Merc is TERRIBLE


truchaos's Avatar


truchaos
10.26.2012 , 09:01 AM | #521
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I just wanna put this out there but in a rated match last night our opposing team had a merc put up 660k damage. Not sure what that means but just felt like sharing.
Without the details of the match (what warfront it was in, how long the match was, what the team makeups were, etc) or a screencap of the final scoreboard to give a comparison to the other players' totals... merely saying he/she did 660k means nothing.

That is the key to this debate- not that mercs/mandos are incapable of putting up numbers in a warfront, but how those numbers compare in effectiveness of role (dps/healing) to the other ac's in the game.
There are circumstances in which you can destroy an enemy, without loss to your own, and yet the victory may still be his. In all situations, you must first decide on the nature of victory, and then take steps to secure it. Avoid the instinct of fight first and think later.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
10.26.2012 , 09:06 AM | #522
Quote: Originally Posted by truchaos View Post
Without the details of the match (what warfront it was in, how long the match was, what the team makeups were, etc) or a screencap of the final scoreboard to give a comparison to the other players' totals... merely saying he/she did 660k means nothing.

That is the key to this debate- not that mercs/mandos are incapable of putting up numbers in a warfront, but how those numbers compare in effectiveness of role (dps/healing) to the other ac's in the game.
damage numbers do not tell the whole story tho, as that is not the problem for merc. our damage output is fine. we need better utlity/mobility, which is very hard to see from warzone stats. you would need to watch footage of the match to see exactly how things went down.
Da'ny - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.26.2012 , 09:21 AM | #523
Quote: Originally Posted by truchaos View Post
Without the details of the match (what warfront it was in, how long the match was, what the team makeups were, etc) or a screencap of the final scoreboard to give a comparison to the other players' totals... merely saying he/she did 660k means nothing.

That is the key to this debate- not that mercs/mandos are incapable of putting up numbers in a warfront, but how those numbers compare in effectiveness of role (dps/healing) to the other ac's in the game.
Ill see if I can get one posted it was a full length voidstar. Honestly I didn't even know there was one on the other team but our merc healer noticed and said "if we knew he was a pyro merc and locked him down he would not have achieved those numbers". I agree there is nothing wrong with your damage its your mobility that needs to be looked at.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
10.26.2012 , 09:26 AM | #524
not even mobility. just give merc/commando some dcds that allow them to cast uninterrupted and immune to kb's every so often like hold the line and something that's the equivalent of cover...just a temporary thing on like a 1m cd. I accept that commandos are turrets. that in itself is fine. snipers are turrets too, and they aren't retardedly ineffectual.
Krackerjack/Deinon/Antiphon
JC -- Harb -- TEH

truchaos's Avatar


truchaos
10.26.2012 , 10:36 AM | #525
I'm full heal spec on both my main (commando) and my main alt (merc) so I can fully understand the envy a dps spec would have of our anti-interrupt shield, though I doubt you would see much of a difference if unload/full auto was uninterruptable either- you would just be choked/knocked/cc'ed/etc instead of eating the actual interrupt skill (which I'm willing to bet makes up a vast majority of interrupts you see now). But I fully agree that our overall lack of dynamic utility is something that really should be addressed.

We just don't bring anything special to the party as it stands right now unlike many of the other ac's. We really need something that would benefit the warzone team as a whole.

As a healer my wish list is going to be somewhat different than a dps in this aspect. Personally, I would be happy to see some form of ae purge ability that removes all detrimental, incapacitation, and movement impairing effects on the merc/mando and his/her nearby allies. Also, I'd love to see them unlock the single-target limit to trauma probe/kolto shell- why these effects were Ever limited to a single target when sorcs/sages can bubble their whole team and ops/smugs can stack healing probes is beyond me!
There are circumstances in which you can destroy an enemy, without loss to your own, and yet the victory may still be his. In all situations, you must first decide on the nature of victory, and then take steps to secure it. Avoid the instinct of fight first and think later.

Krozis's Avatar


Krozis
10.26.2012 , 11:59 AM | #526
If this massive thread of discontent towards the Merc class isn't proof that dev's simply don't care, I don't know what is.

I believe in the last patch, with the misguided (but good intentioned) idea of changing talented Rocket Punch, and crud heal (completely useless in PVP) the dev's believe the class is 'fixed'.

I suggested in the Mercenary forums all sorts of solutions, and actual evidence of the ineptitude of this class in PVP. It doesn't matter, they don't listen.

The best thing you can do is do what I did... roll a Powertech, and turn your Merc into a craft donkey. Or unsubscribe.... Dev's MAY listen to subscription numbers but I'm not so sure anymore.

Personally I don't care very much for my Powertech, but he works, and physically he's similar to my Merc. I miss Arsenal a lot and I find Merc a lot funner in PVE (personal preference I suppose).

But the difference in PVP is night and day (between a Merc and PT). How the dev's don't see this completely escapes me.

Unfortunately even this monster thread, which has to be the 10th or so such thread in some for or another is completely ignored. BUT make a thread asking if F2P can wear purple underwear? That's going to get answered in a few days tops.

As someone with several 50's, I still miss the merc a lot. I completely understand everyone's frustration in this thread. I also know first hand how horrid ranked PVP is for this class. On many levels I think the community deserves a real response from BIOWARE.... Even if BW think it's 'working as intended'.

Bioware, this thread (along with all the others) deserves a response. Is Mercenary working as you see it should? If so, what are we doing wrong? If you don't think it's working as intended, why is it being treated like the red headed step child under the stairs?

Bioware, please respond to your subscribing community... how many threads will it take?
̿̿'̿̿\̵͇̿̿\= Formerly from a big guild that is now hundreds of tiny guilds. =/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿
Krozis \ Vintego \ Vint

Amebia's Avatar


Amebia
10.26.2012 , 01:08 PM | #527
R.I.P My commando

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
10.26.2012 , 01:29 PM | #528
Quote: Originally Posted by Rassuro View Post

Which are the two abilities that you are spamming as a PT Pyro for 600k damage?
Rapid Shots/ Rail shot or the vanguard equivalent. Haven't you seen the video? Is this breaking news to you because they have been able to do so for a long time.

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
10.26.2012 , 01:41 PM | #529
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Actually the AoE stun is a pretty potent tool against melee.

You're right that our burst is only "ok". Not great but "ok". And it's kinda ridiculous that a Vanguard's HiB hits harder than a Commando's because of the extra armor Pen they get, but saying our sustained damage is low when left alone to free cast is being disingenuous at best. If our sustained was that bad we wouldn't be so good on the PVE side of things, where let me assure you Commandos and Mercs have no problems.

Did they balance 1.2 around a bugged HSM/DR, then realized it was bugged and fixed it completely screwing us for months before they got around to fixing the Crit Multiplier talent for Full Auto (Deadly Cannon for us), Allowing Charged Barrel to stack 2 at a time, and changing the accuracy talent to an armor pen buff for both Full Auto and HiB? Yep they did that. They suck. And for a few brief shining days we had incredible burst. They changed it, because, again they suck.

You point to the crazy smash damage going out as evidence that it would be balanced for us to have our 8k DRs back, and that's just the wrong example imo because I think it's a tad broken.

I agree with the others that what we really need are utility changes. Sadly I think we need a LOT of utility help, not just a little, but they should probably introduce any changes slowly overtime to keep out the FotMers, and to actually have a chance to ASSESS a change and how it works on live before they make additional changes. It might be that just one of the proposed changes (like Hold the Line) would be enough to tip the scales and make us viable again.

What, personally, has me angry isn't that we've been left alone for so long in this sad state, but that last time they made an actual change to our utility it was to give us the interrupt we should have always had, and then nerfed what few tools we had in either DPS tree. *** BW?
That AOE stun doesn't last very long. The only reason it works is because (ONCE AGAIN) PTs have insane burst. I mean...they not only have better spells, but they have a dps cooldown that makes them crit more for 15 secs. If a PT really wants you to die, you are going down. If Mercs had Carbonize they wouldn't be in any better of a position because the 1 tracer you could get off in that time wouldn't help you enough.

PVE fights are mostly about sustained, single target, damage with the occasional add that needs to be burst down. You can't compare that to PVP.

In PVP you fight intelligent human beings, not computers. While good sustained damage is fine for a Boss mob who will not react to you as long as the tank holds aggro, people are much different. To validate your position all the players would not only have to leave you alone, but also just stand there eating your missiles to the face. THAT WON'T HAPPEN.

Players are going to run away, LOS you, or counter attack AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE BURST ABILITY TO KILL THEM BEFORE THEY REALIZE THEY ARE IN TROUBLE YOU ARE NOT GONNA KILL A GOOD PLAYER. We don't even have a finishing move like Snipers, Sins, and Marauders. In addition to that, PVP environments require a lot more switching targets than PVE raids. You know what happens when a merc switches targets a lot? His heat goes up and his DPS goes down. I have 27 barrels and optimized PVE gear consisting of mostly 63 mods with a few 61 mods left to upgrade. I do A LOT of raiding, and I can assure you that you cannot compare it to PVP. Not even a little bit.

PVE dps is all about your burst damage and AOE damage. Mediocre sustained and ok burst won't get you anywhere.

xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
10.26.2012 , 02:36 PM | #530
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Because it doesn't have 30 meter range, it has a longer cooldown then Unload and because its damage is backloaded so you have time to get away from it before the worst part of it.
still... its also channeled, and the range point is moot because this is a mellee heavy game...