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Merc is TERRIBLE


heechJunzi's Avatar


heechJunzi
10.09.2012 , 12:12 PM | #161
Quote: Originally Posted by Asukaa View Post
But in a group dynamic, Commando brings nothing "clutch" to the table. You should always opt to take a VG/PT over a commando dps. It's just the way it is. I can't get into detail as there is a lot but for the most part, it's due to the fact that the VG/PT's burst is a lot faster than the commando because the VG/PT's attacks are all instant. The gives them all the advantage. Nuff said.
I would agree with this *up until* 1.4. I think things are substantially different with the changes post 1.4.

PT no longer have the range. They don't have a great deal of survivability, so when they have to fight in melee range exclusively, their livespan is reduced. Also, for burst, the new decoupled cooldown for sticky grenade and assault plastique is a game changer. You can easily get a 15k burst (within 4-5 seconds) with commando, at 30m range. That burst has also saved me quite a bit with melee attacking me as well... I don't have a lot of time once they're on me, but once I take 12k off their HP in 3-4 GCDs, then all of a sudden they lose interest when they realize I've already kited out of melee range.

I also personally think as an assault commando, I bring a lot to the team with spot healing. I'll heal the ball carrier, I'll heal the other attacker/defender at my turret if he's at 10% health, etc, etc. My primary job is DPS (and I'll consistently do 300-500k, even in ranked)... but it's rare I end a match with less than 25k opportunistic healing (and sometimes as much as 80k).

Anyways, commandos kick serious butt in regular wz, and I think we're very competitive in ranked as well. I'm not saying we're OP, but we get it done.
Junzi - EWH Sentinel Buxi - EWH Commando Jünzi - EWH Operative
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
10.09.2012 , 12:17 PM | #162
Quote: Originally Posted by Asukaa View Post
Mercs/Commandos need to respec to Assault/Pyro. I can solo all but 2 classes 1v1. The only 2 classes that beat me hands down are PT/VG and Tanksin/Shadow tank. If you still have trouble after going Pyro/Assault, then it's a L2P issue. I top dps in all WZ's I enter. I make people regret force leaping to me. But I will admit, in 8v8 ranked, it's a whole different ball game. YOU DO NOT TAKE A COMMANDO UNLESS HE IS A HEALER. It's not the player at that level, it's the class. I learned it the hard way. I can take on all the top ranked teams sents/mara's 1v1 and dominate them. But in a group dynamic, Commando brings nothing "clutch" to the table. You should always opt to take a VG/PT over a commando dps. It's just the way it is. I can't get into detail as there is a lot but for the most part, it's due to the fact that the VG/PT's burst is a lot faster than the commando because the VG/PT's attacks are all instant. The gives them all the advantage. Nuff said.

So it all boils down to, what do you want to do end-game? I have so much fun on my Commando. I leveled a VG as well for the rWZ's, but now I could care less about ranked. So I'm back on my Commando destroying pugs. The OP stating that he loses 1v1 against every class, that's just a bad player. Not "bad"... It's a harsh word for someone I don't know but you are not trying hard enough. There are tons of forum posts, guides, and videos that will show you how to play better. I went thru tons of reading and min/max'ing to get to where I'm at now. And even still I know I cannot do rwz's with my Commando and I don't really care.




DPS Merc/commando, no matter the spec, is not suitable for ranked. We all know that (well those of us that have actually played ranked with our dps mercs/commandos). So if that is your goal, do not roll the class unless you plan to go heals. Please note: There are pugs going into RWZ's and you can probably stomp them with any class, but doesn't mean since you beat them with your tracer missles that you are now viable in ranked against anyone. Don't fall into that trap.


TL;DR - Stop posting these threads baddies.
This is actually a very good post and good advice.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force

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IronFirewind's Avatar


IronFirewind
10.09.2012 , 12:20 PM | #163
Quote: Originally Posted by klham View Post
Fairly often since the server merger, depending on the time of day and location - on Tat, Alderaan, Hoth, Voss, etc. Alderaan is where a lot of imp 50s like to camp lowbies for some reason (on my server anyway), and I almost always encounter imps on my datacron runs from Tat onwards. It's a regular part of the gameplay, and quite fun for every other AC (except for the camping 50s). I really enjoy it on my Tactics Vanguard, much less so on my commando. Sry but you're still on a PvE server, so my point stands re optional PvP there. A merc/commando on a PvP server doesn't get a duel request before getting ganked while doing his/her class quests. Hence my suggestion that new players get a tooltip when they're presented with their AC choice, at least until the AC is given a fighting chance in PvP when in the hands of a typical player, which it currently doesn't have.
I still don't get the logic where getting ganked while 1-49 instantly makes you great at Ranked 8v8 warzones at Lv50 is coming from.

But I guess going to Alderaan and Tatooine to go and gank some low level players that are questing is what the CoD kiddies think the game is balanced around now.
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Asturias's Avatar


Asturias
10.09.2012 , 12:27 PM | #164
How about this?

There is a lot of unnecessary skills you don't use at a higher level and since "Power Shot" is part of the mechanics for both Pyro and Arsenal, why not make it a instant cast but increase the heat to 25 instead of where it is currently at which is 16.

This would make Pyro more mobile and give flexiability to Arsenal spec players.

/discuss
The greatest Star Wars story, that was ever told.
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Asturias (Lonestar Legacy)
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Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
10.09.2012 , 12:31 PM | #165
Quote: Originally Posted by Asturias View Post
How about this?

There is a lot of unnecessary skills you don't use at a higher level and since "Power Shot" is part of the mechanics for both Pyro and Arsenal, why not make it a instant cast but increase the heat to 25 instead of where it is currently at which is 16.

This would make Pyro more mobile and give flexiability to Arsenal spec players.

/discuss
I think that would kill pyro merc by the heat and not provide anything of value to arsenal, other than an instant ability to proc power barrier.

Asturias's Avatar


Asturias
10.09.2012 , 01:00 PM | #166
Quote: Originally Posted by Technohic View Post
I think that would kill pyro merc by the heat and not provide anything of value to arsenal, other than an instant ability to proc power barrier.
Maybe they could incorporate something to lower the heat in the Pyro tree.

Call it "Power Shot Management".

1 point decreases Power Shot heat requirement by 50% (Lowers it from 25 to 20

2 points decreases Power Shot heat requirement by 100% (Lowers it from 20 to 15)

Something to think about but I would love it if this ability was a instant cast
The greatest Star Wars story, that was ever told.
A hunter, a seeker, and a killer for hire
Asturias (Lonestar Legacy)
Jung Ma RP PvP

Asukaa's Avatar


Asukaa
10.09.2012 , 01:14 PM | #167
Quote: Originally Posted by heechJunzi View Post
I would agree with this *up until* 1.4. I think things are substantially different with the changes post 1.4.

PT no longer have the range. They don't have a great deal of survivability, so when they have to fight in melee range exclusively, their livespan is reduced. Also, for burst, the new decoupled cooldown for sticky grenade and assault plastique is a game changer. You can easily get a 15k burst (within 4-5 seconds) with commando, at 30m range. That burst has also saved me quite a bit with melee attacking me as well... I don't have a lot of time once they're on me, but once I take 12k off their HP in 3-4 GCDs, then all of a sudden they lose interest when they realize I've already kited out of melee range.

I also personally think as an assault commando, I bring a lot to the team with spot healing. I'll heal the ball carrier, I'll heal the other attacker/defender at my turret if he's at 10% health, etc, etc. My primary job is DPS (and I'll consistently do 300-500k, even in ranked)... but it's rare I end a match with less than 25k opportunistic healing (and sometimes as much as 80k).

Anyways, commandos kick serious butt in regular wz, and I think we're very competitive in ranked as well. I'm not saying we're OP, but we get it done.
The only issue is that burst is still slower than a VG/PT. When trying to take down healers in ranked, that will cost you. Plus, VG/PT's have a pull. In ranked, when we jump on a healer, 9 times out of 10, his tank will jump/leap to start aoe taunting. That's when I run out, and pull him and cryo. His healer now has 2 sents and another VG beating on him with no shield for a good 3 secs... He's dead. I've tried doing that same thing with my commando but the KB is so sketchy and it's not far enough to break the guard. Sometimes both the healer and tank go flying off in the same direction even when I plant myself right in between them. Plus you don't want the melee having to chase their target.

Jherad's Avatar


Jherad
10.09.2012 , 01:36 PM | #168
Quote: Originally Posted by heechJunzi View Post
(... PTs don't have range... Mercs have range... Range good... Mercs good.
Range is little more than a comforting illusion in RWZs (albeit a little less so for slingers/snipers with cover). So much melee has the ability to close the distance at will, that range is essentially just a method of avoiding some AOE. Unfortunately the drawbacks of that range (eg. channels and cast times) make bringing some classes a costly decision.

I'd still really like to see some videos of these RWZs that people are allegedly flattening with their Mercs.
Zacharïah - Commando / Chasso - Merc
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2.4 is the PvP Patch! ... J/K, Removing RWZs trolololol

Baarabas's Avatar


Baarabas
10.09.2012 , 01:38 PM | #169
Quote: Originally Posted by Asturias View Post
How about this?

There is a lot of unnecessary skills you don't use at a higher level and since "Power Shot" is part of the mechanics for both Pyro and Arsenal, why not make it a instant cast but increase the heat to 25 instead of where it is currently at which is 16.

This would make Pyro more mobile and give flexiability to Arsenal spec players.

/discuss
My brother and I were just discussing this last night (as well as force lightning for the sorcs). This would be a good balancing feature. They would have to revert the 1.2 changes to Powershot to make it worth it (and not to tip the scale for Bodyguards). remember 1.2 did this:

•Power Shot has been rebalanced. It now generates 16 Heat, has a 2-second activation time, and deals approximately 10% less damage.
•Muzzle Fluting no longer reduces Heat costs. It now reduces the activation time of Power Shot and Tracer Missile by .5 seconds.

If they reversed this Powershot would generate 25 heat making it not as beneficial for Bodyguards (but available - even improved if they purchase muzzle fluting) but easily controlled by Arsenal and Pyro. Activation time would return to 1.5 and it would gain 10% damage back making it worth it again. Muzzle Fluting would again be a heat reduction for the skill.

All is no gain unless they also reverse the 1.4 Nerf to Electro Dart, Sweltering Heat, and Rocket Punch.
"Listen! And understand! He is out there! He cant be bargained with! He cant be reasoned with! He doesn't feel pitty, or remorse, or fear. And absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"
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heechJunzi's Avatar


heechJunzi
10.09.2012 , 02:03 PM | #170
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
Range is little more than a comforting illusion in RWZs (albeit a little less so for slingers/snipers with cover). So much melee has the ability to close the distance at will, that range is essentially just a method of avoiding some AOE. Unfortunately the drawbacks of that range (eg. channels and cast times) make bringing some classes a costly decision.

I'd still really like to see some videos of these RWZs that people are allegedly flattening with their Mercs.
I make it a commitment to maintain range. I've seen your videos, and I see you like to mix it up at any kind of range. You should re-roll PT, more akin to your style.

I would venture to guess i do more than 50% of my damage at range > 20m. That improves my survivability. If melee jumps on me I kite, kite, and kite some more. No other class kites like we can with our DoT and insta-cast HIB/AP/SG. There's no way I could play gunnery; only channeled ability I use is full auto, and the goal is just to proc my HIB (so no loss if it's interrupted).

If two melee at 100% hp jump on me, of course I'm dead. I accept that, story of life for most non-stealth classes.

As far as ranked, I'm competitive, I don't claim to dominate. I still get to use my rotation in full, get my damage and kills. I rarely die more than 10 times unless it's a total rout. I'm gonna pickup an external drive later, see if I can figure out how to record some wz's.
Junzi - EWH Sentinel Buxi - EWH Commando Jünzi - EWH Operative
----------- The Harbinger -----------