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Bioware can you explain to me why...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Bioware can you explain to me why...
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CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
10.18.2012 , 03:03 PM | #51
People are making this out to be a simple problem. DPS in this game is based on many factors.

Ok, all I'm trying to do here is point out why this isn't easy for Bioware to explain (or to manage or to fix or to whatever with it).

-Gear
-Abilities
-Procs
-Buffs
-Consumables

Each of those factors has specifics/issues within themselves.

But I'll take gear for my example. We all know the complaints here. Is full WH with EWH hands the best pvp gear in the game? Nope. Not close. BiS is the best gear in the game. The damage between fully geared WH and BiS is quite a gap, I'm not sure if most people realize this. The different between recruit and BiS is huge. And when Bioware tries to balance DPS they need to take into account all gear types. The low (most players in the game) to the high (fewest)

Take 2 rage juggs hitting the same toon with full proc'd smash.

Toon A has full BM gear, not augmented
Toon B has full recruit not augmented
Toon C has BiS

Toon B hits toon A with a fully proc'd smash for 0-3.3k depending on class, abilities, buffs, procs, etc.

Toon C hits toon A with a fully proc'd smash for 0-7k again, depending on class, abilities, buffs procs, etc.

How would Bioware "fix" the high damage of a BiS while not making a recruit smash jugg worthless? Who would play rage if your main attack was scaled below 3.3K? And remember any scale that brings that 7k smash down to 5ksih would also bring that 3.3k smash down to a worthless level (under 2k?).

The reality (maybe sad reality) is that since this game has no scaling for damage in end game pvp, there will be no way to "fix" high dps. The game is designed from A to Z to allow high DPS if the circumstances allow it. Those circumstances may be many things: gear gap (recruit to BiS and everywhere in between), buffs (think mara group buffs, wz red buffs), debuffs (armor penetration, etc.).

I'm not taking a stance, just pointing out some realities of how this game is built. Progression.
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
10.18.2012 , 03:05 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Polebreaker View Post
As others have said, it's clear the designers do not actually play any pvp. "Keeping an eye on it"... ridiculous.... GO GET IN A WARZONE and tell us it's at all balanced. God, the over-reliance on "metrics" by this team is disgraceful.
I'm so pleased you said this...now I don't have to. It's obvious they don't...not on any PvP server at least. Numbers (metrics) only tell PART of the story.
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TonyDragonflame's Avatar


TonyDragonflame
10.18.2012 , 03:07 PM | #53
I'm wonder how baddies crying about Focus/Rage. Its pure one trick pony, because this spec squishy like hell. One smash/sweep, then stun -> stun -> die. Zero survivability.

There are now only 1 OP class in game - its assasins/shadows. Because highest survivability, high burst, ability of total resistance for all cc, pull, force speed every 20 sec, can stun for 4 sec every 15 sec, and stealth.

rob_y's Avatar


rob_y
10.18.2012 , 03:07 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by wolfmith View Post
did anyone used Veng ? xD Juggs I know were either Tanks or Smash spammers Never heard of a veng besides the obvious hybrid specs.
I would guess most Jugg "tanks" were actually Vengeance/Tank hybrids.
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Soljin's Avatar


Soljin
10.18.2012 , 03:19 PM | #55
Yeah Vengeance Juggs have always been out there...But never considered OP and by some not considered competative....So Bioware decided they neede a nerf I guess..and Rage which was already considered the dominent Rated Spec and overall strongest Warriior spec got buffed....LMAO!
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Azrienov's Avatar


Azrienov
10.18.2012 , 03:26 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.
Allison, imo, you're the best person working for Bioware.

Austin, I'm confused by the need for high AoE burst in a PvP enviroment that requires close confines on three of the four maps for successful manipulation of the objectives when you nerfed DFA on the BH/Trooper. . . hmmm

Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
10.18.2012 , 03:35 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.
Its posts like this that make me lose any hope I had left for my class in PVP. WHAT EXACTLY are they keeping an eye out for? Currently Mele can jump to you; stunning you (leaving you no allowance to break out of it or respond. your spells are greyed out) This gives them at least one free smash. Then you have mele who are able to spec into not being able to be knocked back after they jump to a person for 4 seconds. As a mercenary, knockbacks (or dare I say knockback now that rocket-punch was nerfed) are the ONE COUNTER WE HAVE to mele ripping our faces off.

Lets consider mercenary nerfs after 1.2:

1) Heavy nerf on tracer missile because people QQ. A CASTED ability that can be INTERRUPTED.
2) Completely neutered Heatseeker missile. Even when it was completely broken the highest hits were 8k on undergeared players. A SINGLE TARGET ability on a 15s cooldown.

And mele are AE smashing for 4-10k SEVERAL TIMES within a 15 second time span.

WHAT EXACTLY ARE THEY KEEPING AN EYE OUT FOR? Bioware is completely clueless to PVP gameplay. Every single change they have made has thrown classes even farther out of balance.

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
10.18.2012 , 03:38 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Phasersablaze View Post
Its posts like this that make me lose any hope I had left for my class in PVP. WHAT EXACTLY are they keeping an eye out for? Currently Mele can jump to you; stunning you (leaving you no allowance to break out of it or respond. your spells are greyed out) This gives them at least one free smash. Then you have mele who are able to spec into not being able to be knocked back after they jump to a person for 4 seconds. As a mercenary, knockbacks (or dare I say knockback now that rocket-punch was nerfed) are the ONE COUNTER WE HAVE to mele ripping our faces off.

Lets consider mercenary nerfs after 1.2:

1) Heavy nerf on tracer missile because people QQ. A CASTED ability that can be INTERRUPTED.
2) Completely neutered Heatseeker missile. Even when it was completely broken the highest hits were 8k on undergeared players. A SINGLE TARGET ability on a 15s cooldown.

And mele are AE smashing for 4-10k SEVERAL TIMES within a 15 second time span.

WHAT EXACTLY ARE THEY KEEPING AN EYE OUT FOR? Bioware is completely clueless to PVP gameplay. Every single change they have made has thrown classes even farther out of balance.
read my post below
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DrIzzt-DoUrden's Avatar


DrIzzt-DoUrden
10.18.2012 , 03:57 PM | #59
Rage / Focus does not need a nerf.
Smash / Force Sweep needs a nerf.

If you reduce the damage of a single ability you might not break anything.
If you tinker with an entire skill tree you might break something.

Just reduce the damage smash & force sweep do by lets say 20-30% and leave the skill tree alone.
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Lightbins's Avatar


Lightbins
10.18.2012 , 03:58 PM | #60
It is sad that Bioware doesn't listen to the community or if they did, they did a very poor job at fixing the imbalances.

If the community is wrong on these issues, would love to see the devs queue up in pvp/rwz and faceoff vs guild rwz teams and stream it to the general public. Wonder if they pick all the FOTM classes for their team.