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Five steps to make PvP more enjoyable and rewarding

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Five steps to make PvP more enjoyable and rewarding

Asturias's Avatar


Asturias
10.09.2012 , 10:48 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Monterone View Post
There are many, many good ideas on these forums that I wish the developers looked towards in the past for inspiration. And while overall, the balance seems to be getting further away from where we all wish it were it seems, at times there are moments when I get the feeling it's not all over yet and there may yet come fixes and balancing that would make it worth-while to stick around longer.

With that in mind I'll list 5 things that I believe would immensely improve the PvP experience and get people to come back, spend more time in WZs and level their alts for PvP.


1) Remove Recruit gear from the game. There is no need for this. The gear gap is too wide and spending time redesigning it is a wasted effort -- scrap it.

2) Hand out a full set of BM gear at 50, the way Recruit is handed out currently. PvP should be about competition and skill, not about a mindless grind that can take 2-3 months, more if you have an average lifestyle. The difference between BM and WH still rewards the player for actively PvPing by giving a few percent more in performance. In addition to that, most BM geared players won't be augmented any more until they get WH, so some gap will still be there.

In addition to this, add a hidden stat to all NEW PvP armor, starting with the new free BM sets: 50% reduction on bonus damage and healing (maybe even armor rating) in Operations and Flashpoints ONLY. You enter an ops or a fp with your new free shiny set of BM armor, your effectiveness is cut in half. However, it will still make you viable for doing lvl 50 dailies and other quest content. Or remove the damage and healing bonus completely in ops and fps, that armor should not be worn in there. Make sure everyone knows this happens via a pop-up window.

3) Implement a 1500 Ranked WZ Comms limit on all PvP gear, meaning those EWH weapons and offhands are now 1500 ranked comms. Regular WH weapons at 1k. ALL armor at 1.2k equally. All other accessories 1k even.

There is no reason anyone should spend more than 2-3 days on getting a single piece of PvP gear. If you think PvP is about the grind you don't get PvP.

4) Remove inventory caps on WZ comms limits. Remove them completely and start rewarding your PvPers for doing what they love, not punishing them for it by deciding when they can buy something or not. If one wished to PvP from level 10 all the way up to 50, and save up for a half of the WH set right at 50 -- why not allow them? They put the time and the effort in and should be rewarded by being competitive when they reach 50. Reward your players and they will reward you.

In fact, if you combine 3 and 4, you can remove ranked comms completely and revert everything back to just WZ comms with no cap limit. Simple and easy.

5) Fix the new 1.4 memory leak and increase WZ performance. Don't know how to help you here.


I think if you implement these changes as a set of improvements, you would truly bring back some of the lost PvPers and create a much more enjoyable experience for current and new customers. The gap between players would lessen a bit and PvP would become more competitive and strategy based, on a more consistent basis.

Players would also take the time to dust off and outfit most if not all of their alts, and while doing so would not only spend more time playing but would learn new classes better in PvP and increase the overall skill cap of the player base -- less crying, more knowledge, more quality PvP.

It may actually motivate players to create that new class they've always wanted to play at 50 but were not looking forward to the grind and massacre in order to get to that point.

I'm sure some will not agree, but please let's keep it civil and let us give some input for the devs -- perhaps they will listen to some of it.


TLDR -- don't be lazy; if you're not here to read, why are you here?
I enjoy the gear grind and I feel as a PvP player I am honing my character to a perfect killing machine of other players as I progress up the food chain.

If you get rid of PvP gear than all you would have is PVE dominating the boards.

I like PvP progression because there is a incentive of reaching max capacity. It does take skill to understand stats and become a better player through progression.

I don't understand why a few such as yourself feel you are entitled to come in a match and expect to dominate with such awesome skills you think you have. I have seen players rock the boards with little to nothing and its because they understand the game mechanics and its features.

I'll repeat this for you so you understand "It does not take that long to get full BM gear" and you can't teach stupid by dumbing the game down.

L2P and earn your keep.
Jung Ma RP-PvP server
Asturias (Main) Mercenary Fross Juggernaut (Alt)
Rhinus (Alt) Sith Assassin Bastion PvP Server
"Credits is what gets me motivated".

Mercbenz's Avatar


Mercbenz
10.10.2012 , 02:25 AM | #32
I guess I'm in the crazy minority, but I like the gear grind. It's a bit too much, but it makes you feel like there's something to look forward to. I haven't had an issue in recruit gear, I was still able to top the boards on occasion and win.

How about this for an idea....

Buy the mods with $ or coms and grind the shells for the set bonuses?
Benzx - Vanguard
Ben'z - OP
Coen - Jugg
Badham & Mercbenz - Inactive crafters

RickyChavez's Avatar


RickyChavez
10.10.2012 , 06:25 AM | #33
4) Remove inventory caps on WZ comms limits. Remove them completely and start rewarding your PvPers for doing what they love, not punishing them for it by deciding when they can buy something or not. If one wished to PvP from level 10 all the way up to 50, and save up for a half of the WH set right at 50 -- why not allow them? They put the time and the effort in and should be rewarded by being competitive when they reach 50. Reward your players and they will reward you.

This.
"You can play the game the way you want. Level the way you want."*- Bioware
* - see screw you pvpers enjoy your level cap, commendation cap, items with incorrect stats on them for your class prior to 50 causing you to mod rip and throw the other mods on the ground, inability to purchase items that you could hold onto until you were lvl 50 or craft because you have the crafting level to do it, and a valor rank to cap your valor so that any valor you gain past your level is just LOST FOREVER so when you hit 50 you can get valor rank BLOCKED too from wearing any lvl 50 items.

I only like playing pvp. My pt is lvl 39 now. I have already 4k kills on it and it gives me nothing.
In lowbies regardless of my level, Im always top dps/heals/tank/medals because I'm skilled at the game.

I have purchased like 4 sets of 5x enhancements to get me up to lvl 50 with pvp expertise.
Thats 5 x 4 = 20 pieces x 900 comms each, which is 18,000 commendations.
18,000 / 3 = 6,000 ranked commendations.

I could almost be sitting on my banked war hero head piece and war hero mainhand.
I don't even want to get into the math for valor. But my lvl 50 that has 60 valor only has 2.5k kills (my lvl 39 has 4k).

I only have 96 hours on this character. I could be playing lvl 50 pvp but I would have spent the 96 hours being smashed into the ground by geared no lifers. The system should be set for skill not for gear and fatty no liferness. Think more like runescape where you get a skill maxed out you get a cool emoticon or you play 2k pvp matches and you can wear a glowing halo around your character. That's all it should be. Emoticon stuff and clothes discoballs and what not just like social leveling is. So many kills you get something, so many mvp votes you get something, so many wins etc. The whole that guy who is in full gear that has no life who doesn't play as well as me but is still killing me 1 v 1 mechanics gets old real quick and makes the game not fun anymore.
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Eillack's Avatar


Eillack
10.10.2012 , 06:32 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
You have 4 unnecessary steps.

1) Remove gear-based PvP.

The end. This pretty much solves all of the other issues you listed. PvP doesn't need to be a completely separate gear grind. It's just another MMO time sink that forces players who want to enjoy both aspects of the game to grind out another set of gear.

Allow players to use whatever moddable shell they want, and have armorings/mods available for purchase so that players can customize stats to their liking with reasonable thresholds in mind. Tanks should be able to mod for higher HP, while DPS should be able to mod for higher damage. Put Alacrity stats on healer gear so that it actually means something.

Keep the token system for unique PvP moddable armor shells for aesthetics only! Level the playing field.
This for the most part.

Although I'm usually in the top 3 healers each WZ I'm in so I don't have that much of a problem until the entire enemy team is on me haha. And I'm only in 1 WH / full BM. But yeah, my alts who'll get rectuit Mk-II are going to have a crap time until the BM grind all over again....
With unity, comes strength...with strength, comes power...with power...comes obedience.....
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Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post
..I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough.

PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
10.10.2012 , 07:35 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
BM gear is about 10% less in terms of stats than WH. Handing out BM gear is ridiculous. The recruit set does its job, it covers the gap between NO GEAR and BM. WH gear is just bragging rights gear, it won't make you that much better in any appreciable way. In fact, there are some stats that are better on the BM mods depending on what you need.

I DO agree with removing the limit on comms. I don't see why we have the ridiculously low cap on comms. At least bump it to 3000 WZ comm cap.
A 10% statistical advantage is enormous in pvp. The 10% gap is also widely inaccurate. My current WH statline with all buffs running a tank stance.

1395 Expertise
1035 melee dmg
92% surge
32% crit
20k health
25% defense
6100 AR

Its not a minor 10% difference. It is a huge gap and dramatically improves my killing and survivability in a warzone.

My standard opening while your stunned and knocked down. Maul, shock, maul, discharge.

2.5k, 3k, 2.5k, 800 = 8300 health. These are some conservative numbers, 17,500 is about bm gear. I am nearly 1/2 healthing a player in full bm gear before they get a counter.

The notion that this isn't an accurate picture of the impact is rose-colored.

Pretending BM gear makes you really just as viable as a WH geared player is not correct. BM gear just means I don't kill you in 1 and 1/2 gcd.

If I do that opening on a recruit geared player and get some good crits I can nearly kill them in 1 stun duration. And no this isn't a I am awesome look at me. This is pure math. That 14-15k health and less dmg mitigation against my higher stats means I hit you harder. You have next to no way to react if I get you below 30% health and can get off assassinate with that health pool. Your talking on a 15k health person that 8300 opener needing to only crit for another 2200 in dmg before I have the player at 30% HP.

If recklessness + Energize + chain shock go off with my shock and 1 of the maul's has duplicity up and your in recruit gear stunned, exactly how long till I can hit you with another shock and then my big hitting assassinate.

From a tank stance. I am sure other classes have similar hard hitting openers. 5k smash and force scream come to mind.

Recruit gear is like paper to wh geared players. BM gear improves your DPS output and gives you some survivability but in all honesty you need to get yourself in wh gear fast.

The gear grind keeps the pvp playable. Honestly, with no end game in pvp its all that keeps the players accounts active. It is for sure a crutch in pvp the gear. I am sure some of the players I absolutely demolish because they have trash gear on don't suck. They have 6 seconds of no ability to react against a player whose statline is far superior and can open from stealth. It doesn't take much to figure out the TTK and gear balance issues make pvp "interesting".
"At last we will have our revenge" -Darth Maul
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Briljin's Avatar


Briljin
10.10.2012 , 04:16 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Monterone View Post
Yes, I understand the three tiers of PvP armor we've always had, but unfortunately that is part of the reason we are losing fellow players and BW is losing customers.
So then we should also make free PvE raiding gear handed out as well right? I mean if giving out free PvP gear will help bring people back then giving out both will be a home run!

Quote: Originally Posted by Monterone View Post
And really, why is there even need to make new tiers of PvP armor? This is wasting resources they don't have. Why create EWH weapons?
Because if I wanted a complete lack of PvP progression, I could just play GW II and be done with it. Hell there I don't even have to be bothered with leveling a character... Just because its not PvE doesn't mean there shouldn't be a progression.

Quote: Originally Posted by Monterone View Post
if one can play 10 hours a day. I'd say an average it takes a half an hour to get one warzone pop and finish it.
Your queues most be terrible. If it is taking you on average half an hour to complete one game, something else is the problem. I can complete a game in probably 20 minutes, with queue being less than a few minutes. So it will take you a while if you lose every game over 10 hour a day you would end up with 1600 commendations and 100 WZ (remember the daily). Which throws off your weekly count by 1k of each commendation as well.

Now keep in mind that the PvE system is pretty close in progression. It's not like you are going to be fully geared there in a wekk either. Depending upon your luck with drops and randoms, it could take just as long and then the next content patch you have to do it all over again.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpaniardInfinity View Post
If you aren't going to stop adding tiers of PvP gear, at the very least matchmaking should try and keep you against others at your effective level.
I would agree with that 100%, it is one of the features that WoW attempted in their WZ and did a pretty good job with. That and PUGs for premades, especially ranked WZ queue premades.

Quote: Originally Posted by Simbr View Post
Just remove expertise, PvP'rs don't need it, PvE'rs / casual PvP'rs don't want it and RP'rs can't comprehend it.
Yeah, then replace it with a more "PvE" friendly stat. That will make raiders so happy!