Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Respect Revan


RDeanOU's Avatar


RDeanOU
10.11.2012 , 07:05 AM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Love is a double edged sword. It can save you, but also condemn you. The Jedi 'fear' the latter. Powerful emotions lead to the Dark Side, but love is a special case. It can not only save people, but also destroy lives. This is shown perfectly in episodes 3 and 6. Love destroyed Anakin, but later saved Darth Vader. But it's a special kind of love. Jedi understand that emotions like love can hinder rational thinking, the thinking required to save lives. We saw Anakin put the needs of his wife before the needs of others. A Jedi can't do that. A Jedi must do what is right for the many, not what is right for those they love.

The Council understands this, but they do not forbid emotion entirely. Many Jedi have emotion. Emotions like happiness and sadness are natural emotions that Jedi feel on a regular basis. Even Master Yoda feels emotion. It isn't emotion that the Jedi forbid, it is emotions that lead to the Dark Side. Fear, anger and love. Fear and anger for obvious reasons, but love is differen as I have detailed in the previous paragraph.
It was not love that destroyed Anakin. It was fear. It was only when his love was forced into secret and twisted that it became something negative. All you have to do is look at the scene where he starts choking Padme to recognize that it was selfish feelings that had taken hold of him and not feelings of love.

Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Fear leads to the dark side. Love and fear are in opposition. Fear is selfish....perhaps the most selfish emotion. Love isn't selfish.

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
10.11.2012 , 07:09 AM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I think Obi-wan is actually pretty darn close if not at Mace's level. Maybe not, I'm just thinking out loud here.
In the second move Anakin say Obi wan is as strong as Mace and wise as Yoda.
Also in episode II Anakin belives he is as good dualist as Yoda, of course this is wrong as proven in the end.
But at the time of episode III Anakin is far beyond all others in lightsaber combat.Something he proves when he kills
lord Tyranus(Dooku) one of the greatest dualist the order have ever seen.And Sidious was never a great dualist but more of a powerful force user.

Revan was also a great lightsaber dualist but not as powerful as Vitiate,but saber combat and beeing poweful in the force goes hand in hand even if your enemy is stronger in the force.A great dualist in close combat will winn always uless beeing far weaker in the force. Something proven in the end of Reva novel, Vitiate was more powerful, but he did understand that if Revan came to close Revan would kill him. Basic logic in the star wars universe.Same with Anakin in epi III, he was not yet as powerful as Yoda or Sidious but in combat they would not have been able to deafeat him.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.11.2012 , 07:14 AM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by RDeanOU View Post
It was not love that destroyed Anakin. It was fear. It was only when his love was forced into secret and twisted that it became something negative. All you have to do is look at the scene where he starts choking Padme to recognize that it was selfish feelings that had taken hold of him and not feelings of love.

Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Fear leads to the dark side. Love and fear are in opposition. Fear is selfish....perhaps the most selfish emotion. Love isn't selfish.
Bullseye! Love only indirectly leads to the dark side, and that's only when you handle it poorly.

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
10.11.2012 , 07:14 AM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by RDeanOU View Post
It was not love that destroyed Anakin. It was fear. It was only when his love was forced into secret and twisted that it became something negative. All you have to do is look at the scene where he starts choking Padme to recognize that it was selfish feelings that had taken hold of him and not feelings of love.

Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Fear leads to the dark side. Love and fear are in opposition. Fear is selfish....perhaps the most selfish emotion. Love isn't selfish.
Very true, love is one of the strongest side of the light side. This is why the new jedi order under luke is better and more powerful.The old ways of forbidding love what was destroyed the jedi order.And the force wanted the old ways to be destroyed so the order could be reborn with Luke Skywalker.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.11.2012 , 07:24 AM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Karsk View Post
In the second move Anaking say Obi wan is as strong as Mace and wise as Yoda.
Also in episode II Anaking belives he is as good dualist as Yoda, of course this is wrong as proven in the end.
But at the time of episode III Anakin is far beyond all others in lightsaber combat.So9mething he proves when he kills
lors Tyranus(Dooku) one of the greatest dualist the order have ever seen.And Sidious was never a great dualist but more of a powerful force user.

Revan was also a great lightsaber dualist but not as powerful as Vitiate,but saber combat and beeing poweful in the force goes hand in hand even if your enemy is stronger in the force.A great dualist in close combat will winn always uless beeing far weaker in the force. Something proven in the end of Reva novel, Vitiate was more powerful, but he did understand that if Revan came to close Revan would kill him. Basic logic in the star wars universe.Same with Anakin in epi III, he was not yet as powerful as Yoda or Sidious but in combat they would not have been able to deafeat him.
Ah, and to revisit Revan's dueling capablilities (according to Wookieepedia) here's somethin I found:

1. He's the greatest Duelist of his time (in fact the greatest Jedi of his time as well). People say that this is insignificant but I disagree. There were plenty of great duelists of Revan's time. Vandar Tokare mastered the Ataru Jar'kai variant, and Vrook Lamar mastered 4 lightsaber forms! Need I mention the Exile? Revan had a decent amout of competition, so to be the best duelist of his time is something to be considered.

Temeluchus's Avatar


Temeluchus
10.11.2012 , 08:27 AM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Ah, and to revisit Revan's dueling capablilities (according to Wookieepedia) here's somethin I found:

1. He's the greatest Duelist of his time (in fact the greatest Jedi of his time as well). People say that this is insignificant but I disagree. There were plenty of great duelists of Revan's time. Vandar Tokare mastered the Ataru Jar'kai variant, and Vrook Lamar mastered 4 lightsaber forms! Need I mention the Exile? Revan had a decent amout of competition, so to be the best duelist of his time is something to be considered.
Wookieepedia is a nice site for basic information or finding out information on obscure SWU facts,books,comics out there but I wouldn't take what it says,word for word, as gospel. Sometimes the information within an entry is flat out wrong or made up.(SEE: Darth Malgus;
Spoiler
if you have any doubts about blatant incorrect or made up parts to an entry)

Remember its a wiki page and can be edited by practically anyone as well as the initial entry sometimes being heavily influenced or biased by the author of the entry's perception of the character/events. For example, if you and I both wrote Revan pages for Wookieepedia, the facts would remain the same but the pages would look vastly different from each other.
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.11.2012 , 09:35 AM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by RDeanOU View Post
It was not love that destroyed Anakin. It was fear. It was only when his love was forced into secret and twisted that it became something negative. All you have to do is look at the scene where he starts choking Padme to recognize that it was selfish feelings that had taken hold of him and not feelings of love.

Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Fear leads to the dark side. Love and fear are in opposition. Fear is selfish....perhaps the most selfish emotion. Love isn't selfish.
That's exactly why the Jedi discourage love. Yes, I agree that it is dumb but I'm talking from their point of view. Love indirectly leads to the Dark Side by causing emotions that can lead to it. Love can cause certain emotions that lead to the Dark Side. Emotions like fear, anger, etc. Love itself is a good thing, but many do not see the big picture like the Jedi do. The Jedi understand that love itself is a good emotion, but what it can lead to can be very bad.

That's the point I'm trying to make. I understand why they take that stance, but part of me disagrees with it.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
10.11.2012 , 11:05 AM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
That's exactly why the Jedi discourage love. Yes, I agree that it is dumb but I'm talking from their point of view. Love indirectly leads to the Dark Side by causing emotions that can lead to it. Love can cause certain emotions that lead to the Dark Side. Emotions like fear, anger, etc. Love itself is a good thing, but many do not see the big picture like the Jedi do. The Jedi understand that love itself is a good emotion, but what it can lead to can be very bad.

That's the point I'm trying to make. I understand why they take that stance, but part of me disagrees with it.
Why do you think Luke Skywalker allows his jedi to love, but teaches them how to DEAL with that love.

That was the fatal flaw with old republic jedi. They merely just shut down a large part of themselves because they were AFRAID of what could happen. And guess what FEAR is of the darkside of "Humanity" since i can't find a word for multiple races.

The Force itself isn't light and dark, it simply is. Light and Dark resides in the BEING. What the Jedi should of done is teach how to deal with emotions like love. They should of taught better JUDGEMENT and self control. Not just "Don't love, it goes to the dark side!" It should of been "Love. It is something that CAN lead to the darkside, but it can lead to so much more. One must guard themselves from what love can draw you down the dark road. But to love, that can redeem a person, save one's life and soul."

Something along those lines. Jedi should of been able to love, have children and such. And the fact they went around just snatching force sensitive children and forcing them to become Jedi never sat well with me. I feel that they should of been asked when they could understand as a child, much like Anakin was at that young of an age, not just taken as an infant and raised inside of the order without knowing a mother's love and sure as hell allow them to to atleast CONTACT their family from time to time. There were so many emotions that are good, and a mother can be that steadying influence that a child needs to stay on the correct path.

Yeah...there were many things that were wrong with the jedi of old that I had issue with.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.11.2012 , 11:10 AM | #119
Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
Wookieepedia is a nice site for basic information or finding out information on obscure SWU facts,books,comics out there but I wouldn't take what it says,word for word, as gospel. Sometimes the information within an entry is flat out wrong or made up.(SEE: Darth Malgus;
Spoiler
if you have any doubts about blatant incorrect or made up parts to an entry)

Remember its a wiki page and can be edited by practically anyone as well as the initial entry sometimes being heavily influenced or biased by the author of the entry's perception of the character/events. For example, if you and I both wrote Revan pages for Wookieepedia, the facts would remain the same but the pages would look vastly different from each other.
You're right, I can't accept a wikia as absolute fact. But unless it sounds ridiculous then I feel I can generally rely on it.

Oh, and the Jedi Masters I named weren't even on the Jedi High Council. so we can assume the men on the Jedi High Council were even better then those of Tokare and Lamar. Just saying.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.11.2012 , 11:13 AM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Why do you think Luke Skywalker allows his jedi to love, but teaches them how to DEAL with that love.

That was the fatal flaw with old republic jedi. They merely just shut down a large part of themselves because they were AFRAID of what could happen. And guess what FEAR is of the darkside of "Humanity" since i can't find a word for multiple races.

The Force itself isn't light and dark, it simply is. Light and Dark resides in the BEING. What the Jedi should of done is teach how to deal with emotions like love. They should of taught better JUDGEMENT and self control. Not just "Don't love, it goes to the dark side!" It should of been "Love. It is something that CAN lead to the darkside, but it can lead to so much more. One must guard themselves from what love can draw you down the dark road. But to love, that can redeem a person, save one's life and soul."

Something along those lines. Jedi should of been able to love, have children and such. And the fact they went around just snatching force sensitive children and forcing them to become Jedi never sat well with me. I feel that they should of been asked when they could understand as a child, much like Anakin was at that young of an age, not just taken as an infant and raised inside of the order without knowing a mother's love and sure as hell allow them to to atleast CONTACT their family from time to time. There were so many emotions that are good, and a mother can be that steadying influence that a child needs to stay on the correct path.

Yeah...there were many things that were wrong with the jedi of old that I had issue with.
I'd just like to point out that Revan did love, and thus, wasn't "weakened" by the Jedi Code like the OR Jedi you mentioned. If what you say is true, then Revan is similar (when it comes to force philosophy) to the NJO Jedi.