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Even out the classes!!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Even out the classes!!!

Technohic's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 12:15 PM | #21
MM Sniper even is fine IMO. You take your support role and take what you can get.

You know how you spot a really bad MM sniper? They try to pursue you around LOS for the kill when you are no direct threat to them. After playing mostly MM and eng sniper, when I went to level toons, I knew right away by this. Sniper chasing a marauder? In the open, you can melt them, but don't follow them around corners. I even was harassing 2 at the same time with my merc specced arsenal.

Solarenergy's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 12:15 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyzic View Post
My gunslinger is a sharpshooter build and I do understand that is not the idela choice for a gunslinger and that dirty fighting is better because the dots avoid the defenses of a tank class but that is my point. Make the other trees viable for pvp and allow them to be competitive and not make one build or tree basically required to be a competitve pvper as that class. When I PVE with my gunslinger i favor the sharpshooter tree simply because crap dies too fast for dirty fighting dots to truly take affect (this is of course in FPs and not OPs where as I feel both trees are viable in the OPs). And personally I feel a gunslinger is a simply what it says a gunslinger they should do big dmg from a distance and not have to go to a tree that makes them into something like a balance sage where they have to let a dot tick off and use some very few burst abilities.
My sniper is Marksmanship build, with several points in Engineering. And I feel I do the most damage that way, get the biggest hits. Also feel comfortable dealing with melee and I feel it's the best PVP build for me, and I play my best with it. I know tanks can reduce the damage with their shields, but I hardly ever target a full hp tank anyway. My job is more of to finish tanks off, not engage them from the start. I tried Lethality once and didn't like it at all. I agree, don't feel like it fit much with being a sniper putting a bunch of DoT's everywhere, and moving around too much. Also it consumed too much resource and it seemed to attract more melee to me, probably due to spending more time out of cover. It didn't feel sniper-ish at all. And if they have a decent healer (which about 2/3 of teams I come up against do), all he has to do is give them a cleanse and your DoT"s don't mean crap.

Too many advocate the Lethality build because it provides more mobility. But they are missing the point. A sniper is not meant to be mobile. That's not your role, not your job, not how the class is designed. You're supposed to sit in cover and shoot people and go unnoticed as long as you can while you take targets down. That's how the class is played. You're not supposed to be mobile. Classes have different roles, and a big part of a sniper's role is spending most of his time in cover. To those that hate cover, well than sniper isn't the class or role for them and they should be playing something else.

Also what above poster said. It's very annoying to be LOS'ed but it's not wise to go chasing them. I've seen so many snipers chasing people in warzones just to kill one guy.
Again, you are not a run-and-gun class. You aren't supposed to be out there in the middle running around or chasing anyone.
If they are LOS"ing you, they aren't trying to kill you. If it's a healer though, you might want to make all efforts to kill the so they don't hide behind that pillar and heal for the whole match. But other than that, I'll just pick a new target and wait for the guy who thinks he can outsmart me to pop back from behind the pillar, which I know he eventually will. He can't stay there forever.

PoliteAssasin's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 01:30 PM | #23
Idk about you guys, but what I got from the op was: I can't kill skilled players who use these classes, bioware nerf them so I can kill them!

That about right?
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MidichIorian's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 01:35 PM | #24
Isnt that exactly what they're doing. It's indirectly leading to there only being two classes, and their mirrors in Warzones; Warriors and Agent healers.

GalnarDegana's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 01:59 PM | #25
Yeah, I like my Sharpshooter Gunslinger in PvP. You get a lot of stopping power. It is a healer-killing spec. I CAN kill tanks, if they don't have their cooldowns, but that isn't really my job. I like that I can't spec to do everything. I can spec for survival, burst DPS, or long-term DPS, and I am ok with not having as much overlap.
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HeavensTerror's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 02:51 PM | #26
I just going to come out and say it SS is garbage for PvP. I used to love it and swore by it then I saw how bad it is. Almost all your dmg is deflected, absorbed, and migated. Yeah sure once is awhile you'll fine a sorc or sage with no bubble and can get a +6k AS and burst them down in seconds, but other then that you can't do anything. Have fun against anyone that knows what they are doing. DF is easily the best spec when it comes to PvP. A SS will never out dps a DF, and in a 1v1 DF owns it hard. Only why people like SS is because it's the easiest spec to play. Every good GS/Sniper on Bastion runs DF/Lethality, hmmm I wonder why...

Come at me bros.
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Ionenla Gunslinger
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BHblaster's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 04:18 PM | #27
Gonna come at you bro. SS while I fully admit is not the most effective damage dealing spec, nothing and I mean nothing can finish a target faster when they are low on health. I LOL at you guys saying SS is not mobile. What game are you playing? I am constantly CCing, protecting the healer, having to use the 4m stun to peel of a teammate, having to peel for myself, I am all over the place. I guess if your style is to trench in and just pew pew low HP targets GS and SS would suck for you.The instant Burst shot, no cooldown on your shield def thingie and quickdraw which can be used out of cover should be an obvious signs SS is meant to be played as a mobile class not intrenched up like an idiot. But your only playing half the class. We are just as much support as we are DPS if played correctly with our various CC's and high burst potential. I never chase a low HP target, if I have removed them from the fighting area while they run 30m away and heal, I have done my job. If I hit a node and start AS,BS and QD all the low HP targets, cc the attackers on my healer, peel for my teammates I def won't have as much damage as say the Sentinel beside me, but I made one hell of a difference, while he mostly gave the enemy healer free medals.

Gunslingers and snipers can be game changers if played correctly. Maras and the like, not so much. Just my opinion tho.

BeatdownPatrol's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 04:39 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by HeavensTerror View Post
I just going to come out and say it SS is garbage for PvP. I used to love it and swore by it then I saw how bad it is. Almost all your dmg is deflected, absorbed, and migated. Yeah sure once is awhile you'll fine a sorc or sage with no bubble and can get a +6k AS and burst them down in seconds, but other then that you can't do anything. Have fun against anyone that knows what they are doing. DF is easily the best spec when it comes to PvP. A SS will never out dps a DF, and in a 1v1 DF owns it hard. Only why people like SS is because it's the easiest spec to play. Every good GS/Sniper on Bastion runs DF/Lethality, hmmm I wonder why...

Come at me bros.
No offense, but you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

I play an MM Sniper. Exclusively. My first PvP match was on the last week of July. I am now full War Hero and lvl 80 Valor with over 15,508 kills, 7010 medals, and 916 MVPs. I can lay down damage so hard that the other team usually stops focusing on the healers and actively start trying to take me down because I am bombing them.

The misconception problem with Agents is that not enough people play them, so most people don't know anything about them. I would also be willing to say that due to the rather steep learning curve, the average journeyman Sniper is just not that good. Please don't misconstrue my observations for arrogance. Each of the sniper specs have a specific role.

Marksman/Sharpshooters: This is a burst spec and a huge force multiplier. Period. It is very good against light and medium armored targets. Your job should be to remove people from the battlefield as quickly as possible, especially healers. Extremely lethal when left alone, in tandem with another sniper, or working with a pocket healer. With their limited Tech Attacks and reliance on their weapons based attacks, while weaker against heavy armor and against shielded targets, they are not helpless. It just takes significantly more work and skill to eliminate those hardened threats. Played correctly, they more than make up for it in burst damage and applying pressure on healers.

This is a support/utility spec that does good AoE damage, fair burst, and is the most survivable of the Sniper specs. It does an awesome job at denying the opposition a piece of real estate due to Plasma Probe/Incendiary Grenade. This spec holds a slight advantage over MM with handling classes with heavy armor and shields due to better Tech Attacks, but the loss of burst gives them more trouble with healers. That said, the spec 's DPS numbers are usually padded from AoE tags rather than killing blows. Sustained damage isn't valued in PvP, but the versatility and utility of the class makes up for it.

Lethality/Dirty Fighting:
This is a tank killing spec. If you are trying to kill heavy armored targets, shielded targets, or maybe counter snipe...then this is the spec for you. They are very mobile and their poisons are a Tech Attack which bypasses armor and shields. Unfortunately, that comes at two hefty expenses. First, they don't have any burst. Second, they are severely gimped against healers since a good one will dispel/cleanse your poisons off both themselves and anybody else they are covering. In WZs where the opposition is light on healing, Lethality specs do awesome....but in a WZ with 2-3 healers on the opposition team, they are seriously gimped and there really isn't anything they can do about it either.

So to both the OP and HeavensTerror, this is a classic case of "Know Your Role, Accept Your Role, Do Your Role." For MY role, I chose to remove people from the field of battle at quickly as I can and to pressure/kill healers. For that role, I chose the spec that I feel best does just that.

One more point. People, the amount of overall damage is NOT the most important aspect of PvP. People think it is, but it is NOT. The most important aspect of PvP is to REMOVE PEOPLE FROM THE FIELD OF BATTLE. Doing so opens up greater opportunities while creating gaps or putting pressure on the opposition's defense. I would much rather do 200000 Damage in a match w/ 35 kills, 16 of them by Killing Blow than 500000 damage in a match with 40 kills and 5 Killing Blows. It is of my opinion and experience that removing people from the battle wins far more games than utility and overall damage every time.


HeavensTerror's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 05:03 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by BeatdownPatrol View Post
long winded rant
Dirty Fighting has no burst? But I'm the one that doesn't know what I'm talking about. Try a sab charge/aim shot/wounding shots. DF can do as much burst if not more then SS.

I don't care you're valor 80 blah blah blah. I'm valor 90 full WH Aug (including Elite WH), but you don't see me throwing it around in peoples faces, but I really don't care. You are only gimping yourself if you play SS in PvP. You said it yourself you play MM exclusively, so you are biased. Have fun with your garbage spec.
The Bastion Forerunner legacy
Ionenla Gunslinger
Twileky Sentinel
Lonenla Vanguard

BeatdownPatrol's Avatar

10.05.2012 , 07:48 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by HeavensTerror View Post
Inelegant Rage Rant
Now, here you go and tell everyone to "Come at me bros" and when somebody challenges your blatantly false statement that "SS is garbage for PvP", you immediately get all butthurt? Ar...Are you serious? So I attempt to list my experience as a means to show you that I am not some NOOB, but you interpret that as "throwing it in everyone's face"? Oh...but you turn right around and post YOUR credential in the (I actually laughed at that, btw. Then I realized you WERE being serious.) Finally, you took my statements as some referendum against DF when in fact I am simply saying that SS and DF serve different roles and set out to establish so. End. Stop. You on the other hand seem to be trying awful hard to de-legitimize one spec in preference for yours based on conjecture. I am sure that I am not alone when I say that you look and sound very disingenuous right about now and I think I am being trolled.

Be that as it may, I will still respond to the more intelligent in this forum.

Compared to SharpShooter/Marksmanship, Dirty Fighting/Lethality has no burst. Go do some parses on a dummy before you make an ignorant statement like that. SS/MM's rotation starts the same except they can spec into Independent Anarchy/Explosive Engineering for +10-15% damage to Sabo Charge/Explosive Probe AND Sharp Aim/Precision Ambush for 20% Armor Bypass on Aim Shot/Ambush. Right there you are already behind because even if you spec into one, you won't get the other.

From there, you do Wounding Shots/Cull...but have not loaded the target up with bleeds/poisons, so your vaunted Wounding Shots/Cull does a whopping base damage of 1635 over 3 seconds. Literally half the damage of Burst Volley/Series of Shots. As for me, I do an instant (read: no channel) Charged Burst/Snipe b/c of Snap Shot for 3059 base and another instant (read: no channel) Trickshot/Followthrough for 1617. A medium/light armored target is at 30% at that point, so I do ANOTHER instant (read: no channel) Takedown for 4089 base.

Even if a DF/Leth did the same amount of dmg with both Sabo & Aim Shot (which they can't), SS/MM did 7130 base damage more than a channeled and gimped Wounding Shots. If you start talking about DoTing up the target, go ahead. If they are a healer, the DoTs get cleansed. If they are another sniper, SS has a 20-25 meter range advantage on all their abilities vs. your 10 meter range for Wounding Shots/Cull AND Hemorrhaging Blast/Weakening Blast. So basically, by claiming that you are doing the same or more burst in your DF as a SS, you are essentially telling the community that you were actuality, very very bad at SS.