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Stun Wars: The Frozen Republic

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Stun Wars: The Frozen Republic

Majspuffen's Avatar


Majspuffen
10.10.2012 , 06:41 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Lionflash View Post
Why do so many people hate such a fun part of PVP in this game? Stuns involve strategy. And when every WZ in this game is objective based stuns really shine.

Every class has a 4 sec hard stun but most of the stuns in this game break on damage. So people who say that they spend 90% of their PVP stunned are being rediculous of lying. Use your CC breaker.
Because the time to kill is so damn low that one stun can be fatal. Back before 1.2 I didn't mind stuns at all. More often than not I could live through a stun when I had full HP. Stuns were only fatal if HP was low. Back then, CC played a truly tactical role.

Also, the change to range was extremely short-sighted. The ranged stuns were tactical, too. Stunning a healer at the right time, stunning someone running to interrupt a cap. Now, the best way to use a stun is to use it on a melee class that is pestering you.
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Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
10.10.2012 , 10:51 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Lionflash View Post
Why do so many people hate such a fun part of PVP in this game? Stuns involve strategy. And when every WZ in this game is objective based stuns really shine.
Speaking only for myself, of course, I just realized I only hate stuns, and feel like I'm being "stunned to death" when the other team really wouldn't need the stun anyway. If it's a reasonably close match, and everyone is being somewhat effective - then in my experience you are more likely to see yourself stunned when you are racing to stop a cap, or racing to intercept the HB carrier... something like that. Those cases, which of course I scream at the screen at the time, don't really bother me in hindsight. I'm more like, "dang it, why did that guy have to play well and stun me there!? And why was I so stupid as to not save my Cc breaker?" That kind of stunning is what I like in a game - tactical, as you say.

But what I hate about the stun is when you are being stomped anyway. The enemy team so outpowers you, or your team refuses to group up (so at most you can get a group of two - you waiting to group up with one other person as they are running off to "solo") - so you are getting crushed as soon as you step away from the spawn anyway. It's sort of like adding insult to injury. "OK, I'm going to have to fight 4 guys here by myself. They are all really good, and it would be close even 1v1, at 4v1 I'm dead no matter what. And not only am I going to have 4 guys kicking my @ss, but they are going to stun me through the whole thing so I can't even get a spit off at them while they do it." That's the stunning I hate. But I'm not sure you can have the first without the second.

Trews's Avatar


Trews
10.10.2012 , 10:55 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
Wait...is this a nerf operative thread.
If it isn't, it should be

also,
Buff Marauders

Soljin's Avatar


Soljin
10.10.2012 , 11:09 AM | #14
There are clearly diverse opinions on how CC should function in PvP.

My take on CC is that it should be used as an escape, or a way to buy yourself time when you are caught off guard..So that you may gather your wit's for the encounter......Never should CC in PvP be usabale in an offensive manner....AKA Stunned while taking Damage, I understand stunning someone to regain positioning...But once struck CC should break period.

There used to be, and still should be severe penalties for Dropping Multiple CC's on one target in a short time span...

Saying Stuns are a fun part of the game, and using them is skill and tactics sounds fine if in fact you are not beating the life out of someone while you and your pal are rotating Hard Stuns....Thats not tactical or Skilled playing...Thats easy mode murder....

Stuns in this game have become the MOST important Offensive skills since 1.4...
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DarthOvertone's Avatar


DarthOvertone
10.10.2012 , 11:14 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Lionflash View Post
Every class has a 4 sec hard stun but most of the stuns in this game break on damage. So people who say that they spend 90% of their PVP stunned are being rediculous of lying. Use your CC breaker.
You seem like a smart guy. I do agree that CC is an interesting dynamic in PvP combat (in any game, not just SWTOR) and does add an extra tactical layer to fights. However, your solution (and BW's for that matter) for handling the CC in this game fails basically because the CC Breaker you are leaning on is overtaxed in the system.

The CC Breaker is a poor solution simply because its cooldown is too long. Additionally, this one CC Breaker is all players have to counter not only CC like Stuns and Mezzes, but Roots and Slows as well (yes I consider those to be forms of Crowd Control).

A few things for you to factor into consideration:

a. How long is your average WZ?
b. How long is the cooldown on your CC Breaker?
c. How many skills in this game can be potentially used to Stun, Mez, Root and Snare during the duration of an average WZ?
d. How many of those crowd control abilities can be handled by your CC Breaker during the average time span of that same WZ?

Now also consider the fact that we all play this game to have fun. Dying is a fact of gameplay and sort of par for the course. That is not the problem. On the other hand, being grey-barred and out of control of your character is simply unfun (and the main reason this game is ridiculed as Stun Wars).

The solution is simple. Lower the cooldown on everyone's CC Breaker (I propose to 40s). You want to add more strategy and dynamics to fights? Offer players more control in fights that require strategic use of CC.
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Zovyn's Avatar


Zovyn
10.10.2012 , 11:16 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Lucef View Post
I completely agree with the OP's assessment. This game 's stun mechanics are outta control. I have been and have seen people get killed many times without so much as a struggle because they were stunned the entire time it took to kill them. Resolve is absolute garbage, and doesn't really do anything. The person is usually dead before resolve even gets close to full.

Every class has at least 2 stuns a hard stun and one that gets broken by damage. All characters have one stun release with a 2 minute cool down. In 2 minutes of pvp you will be stunned more time than cattle being herded to the slaughter house. As for strategy, what? What strategy stun lock through an entire fight is not a strategy, it's a joke. It takes no skill and it makes the warzone nothing but pure frustration.

When I fight someone I want to fight. It's not a fight if they can't hit back. Player vs Player should be a game of skill, where actions and reactions determine the outcome of an encounter. It SHOULD NOT be like a game of Family Fued where whoever gets the stun button off first wins. The CC system needs a complete overhaul. Hopefully one that allows for a meaningful encounter when you fight ANY class. Where skill decides the outcome more than stuns and gear.
^This!

In more and more warzones the stealthy stunners are operating in packs. They hard stun you one after the other for the 8 seconds it takes to kill you then vanish. They have started hanging at the endzones killing people as they re-enter the game or hanging at the drop-off points in the others and doing the same.

It's not so bad in the 50 bracket when you can rely on team mates to help you counter but in the 10-49 brackets where pugs are about all you're going to get, there is usually no help to be found.

I have to admit its a very easy way to farm medals, I've since rolled an Oper with a friend to take advantage of it while I can.

Simply put the resolve system is garbage in its current form and can and will cause more people to avoid WZ's until its properly fixed. I mean seriously, how many times would you run out onto the field and die in 4-8 seconds with ZERO control of your actions before you quit the warzone?
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Lionflash's Avatar


Lionflash
10.10.2012 , 11:57 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post
You seem like a smart guy. I do agree that CC is an interesting dynamic in PvP combat (in any game, not just SWTOR) and does add an extra tactical layer to fights. However, your solution (and BW's for that matter) for handling the CC in this game fails basically because the CC Breaker you are leaning on is overtaxed in the system.

The CC Breaker is a poor solution simply because its cooldown is too long. Additionally, this one CC Breaker is all players have to counter not only CC like Stuns and Mezzes, but Roots and Slows as well (yes I consider those to be forms of Crowd Control).

A few things for you to factor into consideration:

a. How long is your average WZ?
b. How long is the cooldown on your CC Breaker?
c. How many skills in this game can be potentially used to Stun, Mez, Root and Snare during the duration of an average WZ?
d. How many of those crowd control abilities can be handled by your CC Breaker during the average time span of that same WZ?

Now also consider the fact that we all play this game to have fun. Dying is a fact of gameplay and sort of par for the course. That is not the problem. On the other hand, being grey-barred and out of control of your character is simply unfun (and the main reason this game is ridiculed as Stun Wars).

The solution is simple. Lower the cooldown on everyone's CC Breaker (I propose to 40s). You want to add more strategy and dynamics to fights? Offer players more control in fights that require strategic use of CC.
It's not perfect but it's whats in the game so I can deal with it. And to me, I'm not feeling like im stunned half the game.

I feel like if you go in expecting to never be stunned or when you are stunned you have some sort of instant way out...then yes...Stun Wars. But just like in Soul Calibur, I'm going to expect to be combo-locked / stunned. When that happends I'm not thinking Stun Calibur (unless it's ivy...i hate ivy... lol) I'm thinking "he got me, but im not dead". That's a part of the game.

No one has ever been stun locked and destroyed in a 1on1 without having a single GCD to do anything, not even from an operative. It only happends when you are focused, 3v1. In which case you should be stunlocked to death...why not? Feels satisfying for the enemy im sure. It makes sense lore wise and it's realistic.

I don't know any game where players dont feel destroyed when they get dog pilled like that.

Basically, if the amount of stuns in this game bothers you then it's simply not for you at the moment. It's a part of the game. Tekken is all about air juggling, and I know that going in.

I never said that I love or even like the resolve system, but I accept it, and it doesn't make me frustrated when it kills me. Because I've never once thought if it wasnt for the resolve system I could have taken all 3 of those guys.

I've also not thought that I have been stunned this whole game because I don't force leap into 3 enemies by myself. If it's 4v4 and the other team decides to play tactical and focus one of you (and in this case your the unlucky one) then they deserve it and one person unfortunately will be stunned locked to death and feel like..."damn, I ran in with everyone and died without doing anything".

When that happends I just hope to myself that my other mates who didn't get touched before i died will capitalize on what just happend.

Boyana's Avatar


Boyana
10.10.2012 , 12:18 PM | #18
Quote:
Stun wars: The frozen republic
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Lexlo's Avatar


Lexlo
10.10.2012 , 12:26 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Lionflash View Post
It's not perfect but it's whats in the game so I can deal with it. And to me, I'm not feeling like im stunned half the game.

I feel like if you go in expecting to never be stunned or when you are stunned you have some sort of instant way out...then yes...Stun Wars. But just like in Soul Calibur, I'm going to expect to be combo-locked / stunned. When that happends I'm not thinking Stun Calibur (unless it's ivy...i hate ivy... lol) I'm thinking "he got me, but im not dead". That's a part of the game.

I don't know any game where players dont feel destroyed when they get dog pilled like that.

Basically, if the amount of stuns in this game bothers you then it's simply not for you at the moment. It's a part of the game. Tekken is all about air juggling, and I know that going in.
A more accurate representation of the stun system would be slapping the other player's controller out of their hands -- repeatedly.
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Zovyn's Avatar


Zovyn
10.10.2012 , 01:25 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Lionflash View Post
Because I've never once thought if it wasnt for the resolve system I could have taken all 3 of those guys.
You miss the point, its not that you might have taken those three on and won or even lived, its that you NEVER get the opportunity.
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