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A simple fix for PVP, why are more people not advocating this?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A simple fix for PVP, why are more people not advocating this?

JustxJerry's Avatar


JustxJerry
10.03.2012 , 03:57 PM | #81
oops doubled up
Jer'ee, Jer'jer
POT5 Server

salaryman's Avatar


salaryman
10.03.2012 , 04:38 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
I feel bad for you, that you became this way during your life. To compare real life success to one in a game is well...silly. There are requirements for advancement in real life because the standards have real world changes. This on the other hand, is a game. A game that is meant to be enjoyable and fun...a way to get away from the competitiveness of real life. So why would anyone want to make a game another job or chore? It no longer becomes a game then.
A lot of players don't get this...and they never will. Some players compensate and invest their self-worth into a video game. (Yes, I said video game.) They then feel upset and resentful when they perceive someone not "working" as hard as they did--as if playing a video game is about work and not having fun!

It's really quite pathetic.

Striders's Avatar


Striders
10.03.2012 , 05:21 PM | #83
It's actually the same on both sides of the coin.

The players that like being rewarded for investing the time in doing well and gearing up a toon in a video game will quit and move on to something else if they perceive everyone else in the game is being handed the same items "for free" or by doing less work.

The players that want everyone on an equal playing field so they can drop in for a few hours a week will quit and move on to something else if they can't be on the equal playing field and feel as though they are being forced into spending more time in-game than they would like.

So the reality of this is that Bio-ware can't win... you are always going to have two classes of people in that regard. If the goal is to have everyone on a level playing field regardless of their time in-game than they should just spit out a console game with no gear grind and allow players to just choose a spec and everyone gets the same gear (with some appearance options?).
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Sweeet's Avatar


Sweeet
10.03.2012 , 05:52 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Striders View Post
It's actually the same on both sides of the coin.

The players that like being rewarded for investing the time in doing well and gearing up a toon in a video game will quit and move on to something else if they perceive everyone else in the game is being handed the same items "for free" or by doing less work.

The players that want everyone on an equal playing field so they can drop in for a few hours a week will quit and move on to something else if they can't be on the equal playing field and feel as though they are being forced into spending more time in-game than they would like.

So the reality of this is that Bio-ware can't win... you are always going to have two classes of people in that regard. If the goal is to have everyone on a level playing field regardless of their time in-game than they should just spit out a console game with no gear grind and allow players to just choose a spec and everyone gets the same gear (with some appearance options?).
Except the players that wanted everyone to be on an equal playing field have already quit, most of them long ago, which is why we're in this mess in the first place. So in reality Bioware has already taken a big gamble and lost, pretty damn hard. And nobody is saying they want a level playing field regardless of their time in-game, we are saying that the grind for WH gear is too much for the average player and the loss of subscriptions goes a long way in proving that.

And I hardly think lessening the grind and encouraging people to partake in Ranked Warzones will put off the first self-entitled group of people. They'll probably QQ for a bit then stop when they realise they have no choice but to live with it. But then they are clearly the vast minority in this situation as again if they weren't, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

vimm's Avatar


vimm
10.03.2012 , 05:53 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by DegreesOfFreedom View Post
That's not the point. The problem is not many people are queueing for ranked as the ranked queue is broken. People would rather go for normals as the incentive is inadequate as well as systematic barriers inherent in the current ranked system. There is a reason why you only see the same 4-5 teams in ranked matches with 90% of the time having the same composition of people. That is broken. With the current system in place, that is too few of a people queuing for ranked. It doesn't matter if the pop is constant if its with the same teams all the time. For a thriving ranked pvp to work, there must be a lot more competition than that.
Yes, it is the point, because the truth directly contradicts what was said.
geeR
Phantom of the Operative

Paulman's Avatar


Paulman
10.03.2012 , 05:59 PM | #86
Ranked warzones were a failure. Warzones are done to death in this game. If anything they need more open pvp.

MrFrezzer's Avatar


MrFrezzer
10.03.2012 , 06:17 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Paulman View Post
Ranked warzones were a failure. Warzones are done to death in this game. If anything they need more open pvp.
ilum reopens in January. You will have to wait till then. Also guess what I have some great news for you read this quote from lead pvp designer Gabe Amatangelo had to say:

"I talked about before launch how I wanted a 20% gap [between a “new” level 50 and a top-geared player], and we did not hit that for a number of development reasons; I could get into the boring details, but the goal and the intent is still a 20% gap."

"One way we’re going to handle that in the future will be a level 50 bolster. We’re going to introduce a recruit gear, mark II in the next patch, but a level 50 bolster will also bring things closer to that 20% gap"

He also talks about how they are not taking the grind out for gear since thats what most players want. They want to be rewarded for what they do. What in life do you get in a day? I don't understand why people want things now now now. Maybe lots of people never went to college. But we all know if you fast track with "online" school you are no where as smart because of the real life situations school can put you in because of REAL HUMAN interaction. Please remember this is a GAME NOT YOUR LIFE!

Thanks
Frezz

If we ever reach the point where every class thinks they are completely balanced and everything is great, I'll take the red pill and unplug from the matrix. - Greg Zoeller

Batllis's Avatar


Batllis
10.03.2012 , 06:26 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Striders View Post
Everyone complains that you need to spend 40+ hours a week to play an MMO.

Not true... yes, if you want to be the best or close to the best than you do have to put forth a great deal of effort. This is especially true when playing PVP as you are going up against other live human beings.

But to say the game is broken because of this is non-sense. You can play this game many different ways if you don't have a ton of time during your week. You just have to lower your expectations. So many people have the notion these days that they should get rewarded for just being there or breathing. This expectation is very similar to real life where entitled college graduates come out today expecting to be able to pick and choose their job, get promoted six months later for just performing their duties and want huge raises every year.

The cause? NO DODGEBALL and GIVING TROPHIES FOR 10th PLACE!

It's an epidemic in this country and it is causing a whole generation of people to have the idea they should have everything they want and get rewarded for doing something half-*** or just being regular. People need to wake up and realize that to be the best at anything (including an MMORPG) you need to invest the time and effort to doing it... otherwise you just have to compromise and realize you won't be the best and just try to be as good as you can in the time you allot to the task.

That's it... if we gave everyone War Hero gear for breathing what would be the point? Go play a console game like Halo or Gears of War or Call of Duty or something.
This guy is spot on. I know there is a lot of complaints about ranked versus unranked, but if you dragged an ungeared toon and expected to be competitive in open world pvp, the exact same thing would happen. The only way to overcome that is numbers, which warzones prevent from happening. Everyone wants their cake without paying for it. PvP is like anything else. You don't expect to jump straight into nightmare mode raids when you ding lvl 50. That is exactly what joining a ranked warzone when you have recruit gear. You don't complain that the NPCs are too difficult, you just re spawn and move on with your life.

I also understand the casual gamer's plight of wanting to do pvp, but you aren't going to be good because of many reasons:
A) You don't pvp a lot, so you don't understand how your character works in pvp
B) Other people enjoy competitiveness and have the time to be the best, so they are going to have the edge no matter what you are given. They are going to find ways and tactics to be superior. Gear just amplifies this effect.
C) People thrive for competitiveness. You don't leave the real world and enter the virtual one to be a lame ***** rodent. You leave the real world to enter a world where you are a freaking jedi with the force or some other hero and you compete against NPCs all the time. It is just that the NPCs don't evolve.
D) Don't complain when other people destroy you. That isn't going to increase your performance and it is going to cause more harm than good. When everyone is screaming about getting melted, but they pvp for 1 hour every month, they are not a reliable sample of the current pvp situation. If you can, read up on your character, if you don't have time for this maybe try to find some open world pvp or duel with your friends or enjoy the fantastic story and environment that BW made. They made the story enjoyable for a reason.

There are probably a lot of errors in my grammar, but I am not really worried about that. The issue with the game isn't warzones. Some positive fixes would be earning commendations for open world kills or holding a certain point that would allow you to get some new gear. This would allow the casual gamer to join up with many other hardcore gamers and enjoy some pvp because open world pvp is more of a numbers and coordination game. Also, schematics for crafting that could be sold would slowly move it to more of a player's economy.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.03.2012 , 06:41 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by salaryman View Post
A lot of players don't get this...and they never will. Some players compensate and invest their self-worth into a video game. (Yes, I said video game.) They then feel upset and resentful when they perceive someone not "working" as hard as they did--as if playing a video game is about work and not having fun!

It's really quite pathetic.
I myself never understood the real world vs video game comparisons. All games are supposed to be challenging and other wise they would not be enjoyable imo. Maybe this grind is a bit over the top but I rather it be long (took me about two months of "work" to get full WH min maxed) but I rather it be long than say a week which is what some people want. If it was crazy easy to get gear I don't think I would be playing.

I would also like to say that I thought getting champion/BM was way more of a pain than getting WH.

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
10.03.2012 , 07:00 PM | #90
Agree with OP, this is one the biggest deterrents for me as well.

I think they need to cap all ranked gear at 1500 rated comms. Elite weapon at 2k.

That may actually open up ranked to more people, it may allow us to play more than one spec on our mains since we could gear for two gear sets... or even allow us to enjoy alts. All good things.

Wish this made sense to BW.
Sominette . Saminette
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