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Healing Sage: 0% Alacrity?


schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
10.03.2012 , 01:58 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by CitizenFry View Post
57 for ear, 57 x2 for implants, 57 x7 for enhancements (head, chest, gloves, pants, boots, mainhand, offhand). Where are you getting that 11th 57 from? Or are you looking at 1x Champion Relic of Forbidding Secrets (WH power relic is better)
Woops, I'm an idiot.
I accidentally counted the belt aswell...

enoax's Avatar


enoax
10.03.2012 , 02:34 PM | #22
While I agree sages generally put too much emphasis on Alacrity, completely sacrificing a stat is Krazy, Carl. Even with a superficial understanding of the diminishing returns, it is obvious.

Anyways, here's a quote from mmo-mechanics with some numbers regarding 550/0 surge/ alacrity vs. 300/250 surge/alacrity:

"....Beyond that, mathematically you're gaining VERY little from that additional ~250 Surge rating (from ~300 to ~550). At 300 Surge Rating, you have a 75.2790% crit multiplier. At 550, you have 78.9889%. For 250 itemization points, you've increased the healing done by your crits by 2.12%. Even assuming a 45% crit chance (ballpark averaging in the 25% bonus to Innervate from Resurg), that's still less than a 1% increase in total healing output.

If you instead invested that 250 in Alacrity, you'd get 7.9569% activation speed out of it, which is a straight ~8% increase to HPCT from cast-time abilities. Even assuming that's only 60% of your HPS, that's still nearly a 5% increase to healing output."


http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...4-page-14.html
enoa - sage - harbringer
chauser - gunslinger
crryra - assassin

Krazy_Karl's Avatar


Krazy_Karl
10.03.2012 , 04:13 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainApop View Post
Slow reply, foruming mid ops.

I think you're focusing a bit too much on "I've done TfB hm with stacked surge so who cares". You don't need to be perfectly optimized to clear any content in this game currently. My guild clearing kephess hm last tier is proof enough of that I assure you.
On a secondary point we haven't seen what nightmare mode is going to look like so that argument presumably won't hold much water later.

The general arguments in favor of alacrity are an increase in idle time. It doesn't sound great but you need to think about it a bit.
1. More idle time amounts to extra GCDs over the course of the fight. Means one of two things, it either allows you to spam more within a certain time to top folk up or it gives you more time to manage your force. Which in turn lets you but out more healing over the fight.
2. More idle time allow YOU to be more mobile, more responsive, despite not being a member of the operative master race. This reduces the damage you take from aoe effects as a general rule.
3. If you have never in your raids ever ever eaten a tick to aoe damage to get a heal off or never find yourself ever in need of more healing output, even then you can throw out some damage so the boss dies quicker (preventative healing).

Now I'm sure you can see the benefits are considerably more ethereal. This is why no one touches it until they have a healthy amount of surge :l

Two final points. The reason people like Aurojin are a bit blunt is because this topic is launch-day OLD. Anything to be said about it has kind of already been said. Secondly that "regards" sign off thing is kind of annoying :L
You're on a forum, your sig serves that purpose. This isn't a letter :L
Thank you for an actual constructive reply.

People like Aurojin respond to threads like this because he seems to believe "his way is the best way PERIOD" and do not want to have a discussion.

As far as the discussion having been beaten to death since launch, much has changed in the game since then. In addition, the debate will always continue, but I wanted to focus on end game healing, specifically in Operations (which I did a search of the forums prior to posting).

And people bringing up HPS and math is not what I was interested in. We can sit here and calculate an actual value for it all day, but we all know (especially with the Sage post-1.2) that skill plays a much more significant part of the equation.

We have yet to see any encounters that truly stress healers to the level where stats will make or break an encounter. What I am thrilled you brought up are the intangibles such as "mobility" and using the extra GCD's to DPS instead of "idling" especially given that force regeneration is a non issue again with force mend. So thank you again for the responses that are outside of the norm and actually constructive.

And to Aurojin, thank you for providing absolutely nothing to this discussion.

Regards,
KK
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.03.2012 , 04:39 PM | #24
Sigh.

I think you're being foolish to dismiss things like "math and HPS" in a discussion about the benefits of certain stats over others.

CaptainApop's Avatar


CaptainApop
10.03.2012 , 04:40 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl View Post
As far as the discussion having been beaten to death since launch, much has changed in the game since then. In addition, the debate will always continue, but I wanted to focus on end game healing, specifically in Operations (which I did a search of the forums prior to posting).
Nothing has changed for healer statwise since launch, barring the initial surge DR nerf.

Dismissing other peoples opinions for explaining why it was better in terms of maths is outlandishly ignorant btw.
You're talking about stat optimization, the skill of the user at the other end is almost entirely irrelevant to this side of the equation.
"I bind kolto probes to Q, partially for the convenience but mostly for the irony"

Subterfuge legacy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd

Krazy_Karl's Avatar


Krazy_Karl
10.03.2012 , 04:46 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainApop View Post
Nothing has changed for healer statwise since launch, barring the initial surge DR nerf.
Wrong. When Deliverance was a 1.5 second heal when used with the Conveyance proc, Alacrity was extremely useful as it reduced the GCD for all spells cast at 1.5 seconds or lower. In addition, I was referring more to the changes to the structure of encounters, the gearing (augments), etc. Once you step into TFB HM, you'll see that it is more execution of strategy than "if I can output X amount of HPS we win".

Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainApop View Post
Dismissing other peoples opinions for explaining why it was better in terms of maths is outlandishly arrogant btw.
I dismissed the attitude that "math and HPS" is the end all be all of the discussion. And Aurojin stated an "opinion" veiled as fact. And thus, it was dismissed as such.

Regards,
KK
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
10.03.2012 , 04:48 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by itsmymillertime View Post
I would not do crit as with 2200 willpower your almost hitting the soft cap on crit, so more power/surge would give me more sustained healing like the op plays.
Just wanted to point out something...

Crit from main stat does NOT use the same diminishing return as critical rating. The two are completely separated. The diminishing returns on the crit portion of the main stat mean that the soft cap is around 8k (that's 8 thousands) main stat, in your case willpower. Critical rating will start seeing serious diminishing returns at 300, 350 ish, independently from other buffs or critical gotten from willpower.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.03.2012 , 05:02 PM | #28
Pot,
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl
... People like Aurojin respond to threads like this because he seems to believe "his way is the best way PERIOD" and do not want to have a discussion. ...
I'd like you to meet Kettle:
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl View Post
... I dismissed the attitude that "math and HPS" is the end all be all of the discussion. And Aurojin stated an "opinion" veiled as fact. And thus, it was dismissed as such. ...

CaptainApop's Avatar


CaptainApop
10.03.2012 , 05:02 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl View Post
Wrong. When Deliverance was a 1.5 second heal when used with the Conveyance proc, Alacrity was extremely useful as it reduced the GCD for all spells cast at 1.5 seconds or lower. In addition, I was referring more to the changes to the structure of encounters, the gearing (augments), etc. Once you step into TFB HM, you'll see that it is more execution of strategy than "if I can output X amount of HPS we win".
The GCD reduction on fast cast spells ( >1.5s) does not make alacrity more valuable. All it does is prevent alacrity from becoming worthless on anything with a 1.5s cast time.

As to your addition, there is no compelling way to gear for TfB specifically. There just isn't. At the end of the day you satisfy a bunch of softcaps then stack as much bonus healing(power/mainstat) as you can because diminished stats don't keep up. "Skill" then determines how much you get out of the gear.

Skill is irrelevant for the gearing side because a stat does not become significantly more or less powerful because it's user is inept.

And before you fall off the high horse and break your neck. I've been in TfB hm since day one so don't pull the "once you get where I am" crap :P
"I bind kolto probes to Q, partially for the convenience but mostly for the irony"

Subterfuge legacy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.03.2012 , 05:34 PM | #30
All snarkiness aside, I firmly believe the point I made earlier:

Both a 0 alacrity healer and a mid-rage (~285) alacrity healer can succeed at any content in the game, up to and including HM TfB. There is not a single encounter that requires absolute perfect Best in Slot across the board.

This leaves then:

1. What's best for a personal playstyle.
and
2. What gear will give you the most possible healing.

Any discussion about #2 should involve math. Just sayin'