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Here's Where We, The Community, Went Wrong

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
Here's Where We, The Community, Went Wrong

Petnil's Avatar

10.18.2012 , 04:35 AM | #71
leveling was/is too fast. And getting endgame gear is way too fast. removing tioneese and columi coms would help. As it stands you will get full columi in a week with only a couple of hard FP each day. Then what. Much of the comunity get their endgame gear from FP and pvp. Not from OPīs. Maybe theyīre not in a guild, maybe the just dont like the big group thing.

So, after a week at lv 50 you got your columi set, now what ?? Now the game is still fun, but the challenge from hardmode has left. You outgear hardmode now so dooing FPīs has no challenge. So you level an alt. Rinse repeat.
Making Nightmare mode for FP to get rakata might help, since the jump between columi and rakata is much smaller than from tioneese to columi. So the challenge would probably stay reasonable even for fully rakata geared players.
But stop with all the comendations. At least let people gain coms, much slower. Only 1 each FP on the endboss e.x.

The thing that for me seems most disapointing is the daily quests. Why no class daily and companon daily. Each class should have had at least one random daily quest of 5 or so. The class leader gets absolutely silent after you complete story. Same with companons. One daily quest pr. companon is that too much to ask. Then we could get one random companon and one random classquest each day. An extra companon quest if your courting.

Also, the unfinished feel of some things. Not beeing able to sit on chairs in bars seems strange. Barkeeper not selling drinks(at least no alcholic drinks) the sleep emote keeps you standing, no sound on emotes. Sleep ofc should have no sound, but why not let me say hello when i type /hello.

Perfection is in the detail. Not in a wast endgame experience. More content wont make me happy, more attention to detail might. When the reward for running FP makes you outgear content itīs poor design imo. When emotes are only half finished itīs poor design imo. When the chair in restareas cant be sat on itīs poor design imo, especially since you can sit in your chair on spaceship.

Most of this, if not all, have been pointet out a gazillion times before. That doesnīt make it less true. Itīs not the comunityīs fault if they point out flaws in the game. Itīs a big plus to a mmo to have a comunity that shows what they like and what could be improved. Itīs the job of game developers to keep the comunity happy (or the comunity will leave) That can be done in many ways, but stonewalling the comunity is not one of them.

Ofc Dev. shouldnīt respond to every complaint, but at least a little attention to suggestion forum would be apreciated. One or maybe two posts each day doesnīt seem too much to ask. Imo it would pay off. The comunity would feel they have been taken serious and maybe get something to look foreward to from the responses. That might have kept some from canselling subscription. If only a few it doesnīt take that many to make a half an hour spent on forums each day pay off.

Sorry follk, this ended much longer than intended. The point is mainly this. If were to blame for anything itīs too high expectations. The rest is the EA/BW. Itīs EA/BWīs job so selll the game, but imo they oversold it. They made promisses they couldnīt keep. Maybe they made them in good faith. Maybe they realy believed they could keep their promisses. But when they couldnīt they should have been more open to us. They should have at least said, sorry we made a promiss we couldnīt keep. Then make a new more realistic promiss and made an effort to keep that.

Khevar's Avatar

10.18.2012 , 04:07 PM | #72
I'm curious about the leveling too fast argument.

There are 13 different planets, each with a class quest, a planetary quest, optional side quests and sometimes bonus series. The idea is you're at max level you've finished them.

The main way to "slow down" leveling would be to reduce the XP per quest, or increase the XP required per level. So then what happens:

1. You would have to fight more trash mobs to level
2. You would have to do more optional quests to level
3. You would need more planets with more content to have quests to level

Fighting a ton more trash? Urg. I also like that I can skip optional quests, so I can see different content as I level alts. Alt #2 I skipped Taris, Alt #3 I skipped Alderaan, etc. Asking for more content is a reasonable suggestion, but honestly, there is quite a bit of single-player content. It's the end-game content this game is lacking.

From my own perspective, I like the pace of the leveling experience. There are 8 class stories, I've finished 4 of them, I'm redoing one as dark side, and I have 4 more started. If it took 2-3 times as long to level my characters, I would probably be unhappy about it.

DarthWalt's Avatar

10.18.2012 , 05:56 PM | #73
1. WoW is dead. Just because you have a handfull of diehard tools that refuse to give up on that lame game even when it was turned into panda pokamon doesnt mean its alive. I liken WoW to a walking dead zombie. Its mindless skillless and stinks like a rotting body.

You are right WoW did kill itself and I glad it did.

I just dont get it. Did anyone even play WoW. I am sorry but lame progaming glitch enrage timers and lame boss mechs dont make a game fun they make it lame cause its lazy.

Petnil's Avatar

10.19.2012 , 09:09 AM | #74
about the leveling. since endgame content is low when you begin a game, itīs better to keep the leveling long for the first chars, then give some xp boosts via legacy or something. That gives the Dev. a bit of extra time to sort out bugs and put in content. If leveling is fast, and getting gear is fast, then people run out of content fast.

Grinstone's Avatar

10.19.2012 , 11:12 AM | #75
It's a delicate balance.

Ideally an MMO is a 'something for everyone' affair (unless billed otherwise). That means anyone who is all about the leveling and doing end game will always run out of content much faster than it can be provided, just as anyone who only concentrates on one aspect of the game is going to run that content into the ground well before new content arrives. That does not necessarily mean they get bored with the game or the content, although odds are good that this will be the case.

I agree that leveling in TOR is quite fast. Too fast? That's something of a judgement call. Even with other MMOs from which to learn lessons, nothing beats experience. BioWare is still learning and I can live with that. Sure, I would love to see some additional planets/zones added to take the sting out of leveling alts (although I ended up with six 50s before I decided to slow down). However, having experienced some other MMOs, including some years after launch, it is a /headdesk moment for me when people pipe up demanding new leveling experiences when the game hasn't even been live for a year.

These are the same people who are being hounded for more operations, flashpoints, armor/equipment variety, increased armor customization, fluff (pazaak, pod races, etc.), new races, new planets, new warzones, arenas, guild ships, player housing, and dozens of other things. Even if they had a team twice as large as WoW (that'd be well over 300 people), there are only so many hours in the day.
If it bleeds it's probably pissed that you shot it.

Petnil's Avatar

10.20.2012 , 04:12 AM | #76
Perfection is in the detail. Not in a wast endgame experience. More content wont make me happy, more attention to detail might. Some things just seem not finished. Emotes seem done kinda lazy, no sitting on chairs, npc clones stand in groups, very limited character creation options. Nothing gamebreaking in itself, but some of it just seems lazy. Then add a lot of bugs, just like any game at launch, they just seem to stay longer in swtor than in most games.

I still play the game, and the basics seems good. But every time i do an emote or meet a group of clones i wonder why this game cost 300mill to develop. If class story was so resource demanding that other content were left unfinished, then maybe it was a bad idea. However, making the group of clones 3 different randomized troopers instead of 3 clones, shouldnīt be more costly. It just seems lazy.

Lady-Jean's Avatar

10.21.2012 , 11:41 AM | #77
I think the thread has gotten a touch off topic. Did the developers make mistakes? Sure, but this thread is to discuss where the community made mistakes.
And I do believe we made the mistake of becoming too excited adn setting our expectations impossibly high for the first year a game is out.
Expecting TOR to be both a sandbox and a themepark is to much. But thats what we did when we pointed to SWG, WOW and every Bioware game in the past.
Expecting Bioware to generate new stories every month is setting a breakneck work pace. These teams have been at work for how many years on this project? Let's give them a moment and see what they have planned in the long run for the game.

I hate to mention problems without suggesting solutions so here goes.
I suggest dividing up planets as "Theme park" story driven and "Sand box" open world, where users can help create the environment. Perhaps guilds can decoracte their own guild hall. It could be a group instance the same way story sections as accessable only to certain players. Something to give a bit more free reign to RP users. They dont need much except room to be creative.
Also I suggest establishing a way for users to send in flashpoint or mission ideas. Instead of asking the burnt out writers to keep fishing for ideas, let the community do it for you. Granted there will need to be some sort of structure to the submissions, but you could reward the best and most common submitters with in game rewards, or a month subscription. This would generate intrest in participating while also giving Bioware staff a slight break.

Sorry for the long post. Cheers!

Darth-Malice's Avatar

10.21.2012 , 03:02 PM | #78
So all the false advertisements about this being the next big thing put out by the original and now fired dev team are not to blame? It's all on us for believing a once reputable name in the video game industry?

Khevar's Avatar

10.21.2012 , 05:54 PM | #79
@Lady-Jean, as far off topic as this may have gone, it's much more pleasant than the "blame game" that happens when it's on topic.

Just sayin'

Grinstone's Avatar

10.22.2012 , 12:44 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Malice View Post
So all the false advertisements about this being the next big thing put out by the original and now fired dev team are not to blame? It's all on us for believing a once reputable name in the video game industry?
If you have a beef with their marketing team, I very much doubt that your grievances will reach them if you air them here.

If you got infected by the excitement the people working on this game showed, that's nobody's fault.

If you don't like the game, that's fair. That's also a question of taste for which no blame can be assigned (whatever the "you're stupid for liking what I don't like" people may believe).

Contrary to popular belief, it is possible for both sides of a debate or discord to be partially (or even entirely) in the wrong. So, no, it isn't all on you. Coming in here and painting everything with a broad brush to try to turn it into an 'Us vs Them' situation does make you more a part of the problem than a part of the solution.
If it bleeds it's probably pissed that you shot it.