Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Dark Ward and TFB


TheRedNalroni's Avatar


TheRedNalroni
10.02.2012 , 05:14 AM | #1
It appears to me that although not directly a nerf to assassin tanks, the certain mechanicss of various encounters greatly diminishes the effectiveness of Assassin Tanks.

Some of the trash has a greater attack rate that reduces the Dark Ward 8 charges to zero within a few seconds effectively rednering the block chance bonus from Dark Ward only up 50% of the time during those encounters.
Ive also noticed this during phase one of the Terror from beyond in phase 1 where a single hit from a tentacle will remove 2 charges.
Has anyone else noticed this? Im not so sure if its as intended or a bug.

Now Im not going to go into all the current disadvantages like the non-scaling self healing mechanic over armour etc, But to me It's getting beyond a joke to me.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.02.2012 , 09:52 AM | #2
Tanking the tentacles in TFB first phase is indeed annoying. It's really the first non-trash pull in the game that has the ability to consistently evaporate DW/KW before its cooldown expires. As for trash pulls… They've always caused problems with Dark/Kinetic Ward. I'm not really concerned about them so much as the bosses.

The good news is that the timing on DW/KW evaporation on TFB seems to be *very* close to the ability cooldown most of the time. Not always, but most of the time. So, you have a fairly narrow window of poor mitigation to deal with (usually 1s or less). Not too bad. This is offset quite nicely by the fact that you will be shielding and dodging an INSANE number of hits, meaning that your force regen will be absolutely stratospheric. On that fight, I don't use saber strike at all. Double Strike / Thrash becomes the main filler, with the proc on Project/Shock dropping cooldowns and giving me Harnessed Shadows/Darkness even faster than I would get it with the low-thrash rotation.

Oh, and the self-heal is fine. It doesn't scale in theory, but there isn't any content out yet which pushes damage numbers into the realm of problematic for self-heal scaling. KP Nightmare comes closest, but even it doesn't cause too many problems.

So on balance, I think it's mostly ok.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

divbyzero's Avatar


divbyzero
10.10.2012 , 06:50 PM | #3
My defense is at 30%, which is the only thing that will prevent you from losing a charge of Kinetic/Dark Ward. Since you only get 8 charges, at 1 slap every 1.5 seconds, statistically you would lose all 8 charges on the third attack at 4.5 seconds, not counting the additional attacks you receive, like slams from the other tentacles, etc.

Kinetic Ward has a 12 second cooldown, I think?... so you'll only have it up around half the time.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.11.2012 , 10:01 AM | #4
My defense (with stim) is 28.86%. That could be why my Kinetic/Dark Ward isn't evaporating quite as fast as people have been reporting.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

murshawursha's Avatar


murshawursha
10.11.2012 , 11:20 AM | #5
Okay, I'm confused. Dark Ward only loses a charge when an attack is successfully shielded. So before, the reason Dark Charge had what seemed like a 100% uptime was because... no attacks (or at least very few) were actually getting absorbed by your shield, which, quite frankly, made the ability relatively useless.

So now that the charges are actually all getting eaten up relatively quickly, which means attacks are being more consistently shielded, which means assassin tanks are mitigating more damage overall... You guys are complaining? What?

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
10.11.2012 , 12:10 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by murshawursha View Post
So now that the charges are actually all getting eaten up relatively quickly, which means attacks are being more consistently shielded, which means assassin tanks are mitigating more damage overall... You guys are complaining? What?
Purty much this, it's kinda hilarious.

Don't forget that the second core mechanic of Shadows/ Sins is the heal from TkT and Lightning.
APOSTATES
Website | Recruitment | About Us
Jokerseven - Shadow | Ce'lia - Sentinel
Sentinel PvE Basics/ Marauder PvE Basics

Simmerr's Avatar


Simmerr
10.12.2012 , 01:01 PM | #7
I think the biggest issue is that we can't have 100% up time on our shield boost now. It's nice to be actually mitigating damage, but if we're only mitigating at half our potential because our charges are eaten up constantly, that makes the whole idea of being a mitigation tank pretty stupid. With light armor only for tankassins, I was always in favor of dark ward being an always on buff, tied to dark charge instead of something we had to trigger, which can't be kept up at all times now.

We're on par with juggs and PT's when DW is up, but when it's not, our light armor gets us killed faster than our self heal can even help us.

murshawursha's Avatar


murshawursha
10.12.2012 , 04:34 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Simmerr View Post
I think the biggest issue is that we can't have 100% up time on our shield boost now. It's nice to be actually mitigating damage, but if we're only mitigating at half our potential because our charges are eaten up constantly, that makes the whole idea of being a mitigation tank pretty stupid. With light armor only for tankassins, I was always in favor of dark ward being an always on buff, tied to dark charge instead of something we had to trigger, which can't be kept up at all times now.

We're on par with juggs and PT's when DW is up, but when it's not, our light armor gets us killed faster than our self heal can even help us.
Okay, it seems like you don't really understand how Dark Ward works, so let me break this down for you.

Dark Ward starts with 8 charges on use. While active, your shield chance is increased by 15%. HOWEVER, every time you shield, it loses a charge. So after you shield 8 attacks, it's gone.

The reason it had "100% uptime" before was because nothing was actually getting shielded, so charges weren't getting consumed. So sure, you had a +15% chance to shield 100% of the time, but given that very few attacks were actually shieldable, that +15% was basically worthless and would only proc 2-3 times over 20 seconds.

Now, the charges are actually being consumed, which means you're actually shielding and mitigating 8 attacks in 20 seconds, rather than just 2 or 3. So yeah, you don't have +15% shield chance 100% of the time, but on the plus side, that 15% shield chance is actually DOING something while it is up, rather than just being a waste of force.

Simmerr's Avatar


Simmerr
10.15.2012 , 01:17 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by murshawursha View Post
Okay, it seems like you don't really understand how Dark Ward works, so let me break this down for you.

Dark Ward starts with 8 charges on use. While active, your shield chance is increased by 15%. HOWEVER, every time you shield, it loses a charge. So after you shield 8 attacks, it's gone.

The reason it had "100% uptime" before was because nothing was actually getting shielded, so charges weren't getting consumed. So sure, you had a +15% chance to shield 100% of the time, but given that very few attacks were actually shieldable, that +15% was basically worthless and would only proc 2-3 times over 20 seconds.

Now, the charges are actually being consumed, which means you're actually shielding and mitigating 8 attacks in 20 seconds, rather than just 2 or 3. So yeah, you don't have +15% shield chance 100% of the time, but on the plus side, that 15% shield chance is actually DOING something while it is up, rather than just being a waste of force.
I'm arguing for sin tanks having a permanent 15% shield bonus, as an always on ability, because we can't keep the DW up like we need to to compete with jugg and PT tanks. They have better armor and more damage reductions, thus as mitigation tanks, we need away to consistently mitigate damage to keep us on par with the others. I'm glad the devs finally allowed bosses to be shielded, this is why we're burning through those charges so fast, and it's better to see them being used, but the fact that we can't possibly keep the extra 15% up at all times when it could be used is what disappoints me.

Basically they went from giving us something that doesn't help us, to giving us something that doesn't help us all the times that we need it. Makes sense?

murshawursha's Avatar


murshawursha
10.15.2012 , 01:31 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Simmerr View Post
I'm arguing for sin tanks having a permanent 15% shield bonus, as an always on ability, because we can't keep the DW up like we need to to compete with jugg and PT tanks. They have better armor and more damage reductions, thus as mitigation tanks, we need away to consistently mitigate damage to keep us on par with the others. I'm glad the devs finally allowed bosses to be shielded, this is why we're burning through those charges so fast, and it's better to see them being used, but the fact that we can't possibly keep the extra 15% up at all times when it could be used is what disappoints me.

Basically they went from giving us something that doesn't help us, to giving us something that doesn't help us all the times that we need it. Makes sense?
Gotcha, that makes more sense.