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Terror from beyond is awesome!

OMGitsCHARLIE's Avatar

10.02.2012 , 08:16 AM | #11
I'm having a blast with this OP! Last night my guild was in 8M HM on the 3rd boss and we had finally worked out the kinks of the second phase (even though someone didnt save me when i had the deletion). We had gotten the boss down to 50k health and he started channeling black obtuse (and enraged). Our tank was half a second late getting to his circle and wiped the whole raid at 40k health lololol. Everyone that was still alive was topped off and died instantly. I have never laughed so hard. I also cried a little bit...

mikebevo's Avatar

10.02.2012 , 10:45 AM | #12
Yeah...I love the fact that certain mistakes mean certain death and even wipes for the entire group even in SM TfB. I really hope they do not dumb this Ops down like they have SM EC. It is just about perfect.

Craxim's Avatar

10.02.2012 , 11:36 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
I personally feel that the final boss in HM is not that impressive. Phase 1 is literally too long and too much of the same thing. Phase 2 has some fun mechanics that require the DPS to run around and pay attention to the anomalies, but overall this fight wasn't what I was hoping it would be.

Operator IX is a hectic fight, and fun, but I will say that none of these fights seem overly tough. They take a bit to get the mechanics down, but, honestly, the raids/operations in this game are seriously lacking. My last raid experience came from Rift and these fights, I feel, are about as hard as the first raid (GSB), which isn't saying much. In fact, completing GSB took longer than HM TFB is. We're 4/5 HM TFB and have only done 3 raid nights with getting the final boss down to his last 2 tentacles. We'll probably finish up HM TFB tonight which means week 1 cleared the content.

Comparing it to other raids, I did a lot of Vanilla and TBC WoW and these operations don't hold a candle to them. Some they do, like Onyxia and MC where the mechanics were actually pretty simple, but once you got to Naxx and the spider boss, or any of the raids in TBC, no way do these even come close...

I think what you're missing is that HM is supposed to be roughly on par with WoW's Normal Mode raids, and it is. It's actually harder than WoW's Normal Mode in my opinion. The mechanics are creative for the most part (although I agree that phase 1 of TFB is a little too repetitive, but for 16 people phase 2 is 30 times more hectic than Operator IX in my opinion). NiM is supposed to be what challenges hardcore players, and until we see the brand new form of NiM that is supposed to be a real nightmare, we don't know if this raid or EC is easy. Maybe NiM will be easily on par with WoW's Heroic raids or harder, maybe it'll be a letdown and it'll be too easy, we don't know, but to write off the raid as easy before we see the hardest difficulty setting is a little premature in my opinion. It also is more obvious with this raid than any in SWTOR that 16 requires far more execution than 8 does, and is far less forgiving because of that.

Speaking of execution, that's something that SWTOR seems to want to make important. There aren't as many smash your face off DPS checks, or as many healing checks or tank gear checks, or 1 big ability that is so insanely hard to handle that you wipe for weeks figuring out the best way to deal with it. Raids in SWTOR are more a 2 step process. Step 1 is "can you figure out what's going on" and when you do, Step 2 is "can you be perfect long enough". Kephess the Undying is a great example of this, it really takes practice for any raid to get good at handling the lightning balls or rotating through nanite towers (in 16 man at least, we've heard its rather easy on 8). A fight like this on NiM might be just the kind of challenge we're all looking for in this game.

The last thing when comparing WoW to SWTOR that I think is important to note is that the majority of Vanilla difficulty came from having 40 people to coordinate, along with the fact that so few people fully understood what hardcore raiding was. Add the fact that WoW designs fights with addons in mind, which allows them to be much more complex with mechanics in general, and sure, you'll see more complex raids in WoW. But this game is still relatively new, and so far, every raid has been a major step in the right direction, KP was much better than EV (Jarg and Sorno I'm looking at you ) and EC was much better than both EV and KP, especially since that is when they decided to create the "Nightmarish NiM". TFB is, just like the others, such a great step forward. I'm excited to see what the fights in SWTOR become as BioWare gets more in depth with their UI customization which would allow them to start being crazier with the fights.

I guess what it comes down to is that the MMO raiding community is changing with the times just as the MMOs are. If you're looking for a raid to hold a candle to "the glory days" of Vanilla or TBC, you're probably not going to find it. WoW's current raids don't even hold a candle to it because it's just not profitable to make your raids as brickwall hard and requiring hours over hours of farming to get one piece of gear when the market as a whole is turning to allow more access to the average player. But like I said earlier, we won't know if "SWTOR raids are easy" until we see the new and improved NiM of EC, which I heard from somewhere will be out much sooner than we expect.
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Eillack's Avatar

10.02.2012 , 11:44 AM | #14
Hmm what are the bare minimums for gear for TfB?

Sadly I've haven't done too many Ops, I have some Columi and iffy about using my WH / BM in any Ops to be honest (Combat Medic Commando).

Projawa's Avatar

10.02.2012 , 12:02 PM | #15
Agree, TFB is impressive. It's almost as much fun as Ulduar or BC raids were. Given how each op has improved maybe we'll see some fights like the Firefighter, Yogg0, Kael, RoS, Vashj before they were nerfed.

Lostpenguins's Avatar

10.02.2012 , 12:11 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Craxim View Post
I can agree that WoW's current raiding model mimics SWTOR's in terms of difficulty (full clear in one week), is that consistent? Is the same percentage of players clearing WoW's raids in the first week or is it really the top 10%. I tend to believe that there's a much larger pool of really good raiders in WoW, not just by sheer numbers of subscribers, but also because it's considered the best raiding game. So the best raiding game will, by percentage (IMO), attract the best raiders. Not meaning to offend the top raiding guilds here. They are probably from WoW and/or just as good, but I'm talking about the percentage of over all raiders.

Still, and I may be wrong on this, isn't the HM version of WoW raids (which would be the equiv of NiM versions here) ready the following week? Well, they are already released at the patch, but then they're ready once you've beaten the normal version. Meaning it was, at most, one week for the top guilds before they can step into the "real" hardcore content. That isn't the same for SWTOR.

And I do understand that, in this game, the 16-man content is harder than the 8-man, in most, if not all, of the cases. Still, look at Naxx 40man and compare that to any raid in SWTOR... not even close to the complexity or fun of those fights. Heigan is still one of my most favorite bosses simply for the fact you have to strafe. Sure, those days are dead, but then I look back at Rift and I still don't see people completing those raids in the first week. It took progression of collecting gear from the earlier bosses to be able to beat the later bosses.

There's no such thing here.

Snoizer's Avatar

10.02.2012 , 02:20 PM | #17

Maybe this game isnt for you? I know the feeling of doing something that is not challanging at all and it is not fun. Many guilds in swtor think the raids in this game is chalanging.

Maybe you should go and play those games you are talking about for a better experiance... just saying.

Aelrail's Avatar

10.02.2012 , 02:45 PM | #18
The fights are truly amazing! We had a ton of fun doing them, plus the whole instance is really jaw dropping.

Thanks BW!
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